Unleaded vs LPG.......

[Boot Hill Bandit]

For a while now we have seen a rise in fuel prices and I for one am keen on keeping my ZS whilst also trying to find ways of making it mine and costing less to run.

Recently I have been looking at LPG conversions.......roughly around £1800 for it to be installed and paying for itself in just a few years. Performance and reliability were the two concerns a few years back when a member on here 'Papa Lazaroo' had a conversion done but it kinda went *****......so he had another company put it all right and as far as I know he left here with everything running good.

Watching the BTCC a few weeks back I was reminded of LPG as I do believe the Arena Ford Focuses are running it under hard racing with the NGTC engines....... (New Generation Turbo Charged engines) so performance can't be that bad??

Anyone on here running LPG in their ZS and got opinions and advice? My credit card should be paid off next month and after June I have a little time to do more 'mods' before the baby comes. Obviously this mod is very favourable in the house at the minute as it could save money in the long run!

Jim

[stamford]

I looked into this about 2-3 years ago but the time it would take to pay it back was too long. Secondly I didn't want the added weight and loss of boot space.

[Boot Hill Bandit]

I looked into this about 2-3 years ago but the time it would take to pay it back was too long. Secondly I didn't want the added weight and loss of boot space.

Yeah I know what you mean :yes: it will take a while to pay it all off but once it is fitted and running it is just a matter of time before it becomes an investment :) plus I can unleash it a bit more without worrying about the cost of a litre of go go juice!

Was thinking I would ask for the donut in the spare wheel well ........failing that it can go in the boot as there isn't much room in there anyway in the hatch :laugh:

Might have to put the standard springs back on the car with the extra weight though :unsure: .........worth me going to look at a car set up with an LPG conversion anyway.

Jim

[StragglaSteve]

do you know whats involved with this conversion?

is it just a gas canister and some rubber hosing to the engine? or is it alot more complicated then that?

maybe i should surf google and stop asking silly questions :judge:

[Boot Hill Bandit]

do you know whats involved with this conversion?

is it just a gas canister and some rubber hosing to the engine? or is it alot more complicated then that?

maybe i should surf google and stop asking silly questions :judge:

Ironically it is the Prins autogas system that Papa had installed.......and look who uses it!

clicky (http://www.prinsautogasuk.co.uk)

Jim

[StragglaSteve]

had a quick read up...

seems simple enough!

gas tank in the spare wheel well, hoseing running underniethe the car to some sort of vapour tank in the engine bay (converting the liquid gas to vapour). then to some new injectors where the gas is injected straight into the engine

you also get a new ECU to go along side your exsisting ECU and a push button to tell the ECU to switch between gas and petrol.

there is adverts for these conversions as cheap as £900 but didnt look into the quality of those conversions ;)

seems the general view is that running on the LPG you are cutting your fuel costs in half, but i guess that depends how much you use the LPG? as you have the option to switch to petrol whenever you want! which i guess can be determined by your mood/driving needs. Eco-drive, put the LPG on! in the mood to put your foot down, switch back to petrol!

couldnt really find any info on how much additional weight you get with the LPG. Also more importantly, when switching from petrol to LPG on a (quite possibly) regular basis, what effect will this have on the life span of the engine?

[Tony10]

Jim I have also been looking into this. I think the pay off time is comming down due to the increase in petrol prices. I got quoted £1400 from grren fuel to do the conversion I was very tempted to get it done just saving up the cash. My wife is always nipping me head at my pertol bill so It would be a great mod indeed.

[Boot Hill Bandit]

had a quick read up...

seems simple enough!

gas tank in the spare wheel well, hoseing running underniethe the car to some sort of vapour tank in the engine bay (converting the liquid gas to vapour). then to some new injectors where the gas is injected straight into the engine

you also get a new ECU to go along side your exsisting ECU and a push button to tell the ECU to switch between gas and petrol.

there is adverts for these conversions as cheap as £900 but didnt look into the quality of those conversions ;)

seems the general view is that running on the LPG you are cutting your fuel costs in half, but i guess that depends how much you use the LPG? as you have the option to switch to petrol whenever you want! which i guess can be determined by your mood/driving needs. Eco-drive, put the LPG on! in the mood to put your foot down, switch back to petrol!

couldnt really find any info on how much additional weight you get with the LPG. Also more importantly, when switching from petrol to LPG on a (quite possibly) regular basis, what effect will this have on the life span of the engine?

Generally speaking spark plugs will get eaten but more so from frequent switching of fuels............running on LPG as much as possible with platinum plugs means trouble free motoring......

As for performance..........no trade off!!! BHP should be the same........it is the MPG which changes...........unleaded is more economical per mile.......the LPG is greener but burns more so the LPG per mile is more....

Trust me..........when the engine is warm and up to teperature I will have my foot buried more often!!!

Only thing I have noted is that it is wise not to let the tanks run down to low. On the flip side I drive LPG powered forklifts and have had no mechanical problems in the 1500 hours our two forks have clocked up each.........they are run on the rev limiter across our site even though this has been reduced by Linde technicians.......

The sooner I get a conversion the better.......but I must do my homework first by asking if anyone has been running LPG on a ZS180 already.

Jim

[Boot Hill Bandit]

Jim I have also been looking into this. I think the pay off time is comming down due to the increase in petrol prices. I got quoted £1400 from grren fuel to do the conversion I was very tempted to get it done just saving up the cash. My wife is always nipping me head at my pertol bill so It would be a great mod indeed.

Approx £1800 ready to run...........performance should be the same...........I think it is a good deal. Quite a few perks running LPG too. Wonder if I can ditch the fuel tank :unsure: that would even things up I think.

Not really got much intention of running on unleaded if I get the LPG conversion.

Jim

[Jay-ZS+]

Is it not a case that you need to run the unleaded for so many minutes/miles from startup before you can make the switch?

[Boot Hill Bandit]

Is it not a case that you need to run the unleaded for so many minutes/miles from startup before you can make the switch?

It starts on unleaded and runs on it for first 500 yards apparently......almost just to get the engine fired up and some temperature in it.........then it switches to petrol.

That was the case 2 years ago...........maybe different now.........can't see the BTCC cars having two tanks to run on :hmmm: would imagine that is a thing of the past.

Trying to phone gas4cars now......it is the company Papa went to to get his ZS180 sorted.

Jim

[Jay-ZS+]

It starts on unleaded and runs on it for first 500 yards apparently......almost just to get the engine fired up and some temperature in it.........then it switches to petrol.

That was the case 2 years ago...........maybe different now.........can't see the BTCC cars having two tanks to run on :hmmm: would imagine that is a thing of the past.

Trying to phone gas4cars now......it is the company Papa went to to get his ZS180 sorted.

Jim

No but the BTCC cars have a pit crew to prep the engine its prob not the same system you get in road cars.

Seems well worth the expense if you do alot of mile to cover its cost. Wonder how long it will be before the govenment catch on and start taxing it at the rate of unleaded and diesel. Can Imagine it could rise in price quickly.

[Boot Hill Bandit]

No but the BTCC cars have a pit crew to prep the engine its prob not the same system you get in road cars.

Seems well worth the expense if you do alot of mile to cover its cost. Wonder how long it will be before the govenment catch on and start taxing it at the rate of unleaded and diesel. Can Imagine it could rise in price quickly.

I have just got off the phone to gas4cars (no I didn't break the phone :slap: ) system is £2000 all in........and it CAN be run as a MONO system i.e the only fuel.............just takes 5-10 mins to warm the car up to 35 degrees celcius before it can be driven hard. Failure to do so will ice up the carb (blimey haven't heard of that in ages.....all relative to karting!!! ) and the engine won't run properly.

Got to say.........I'm sold already. Awaiting an email...........and 10 days waiting list to book in...........guy has got a ZS180 in there being worked on today!!!! Very popular...........approx every 10 calls and 1 will be booked in.

The tank sits in the spare wheel well approx 56 litres.........and does not encroach on boot space at all.

I bet there are a few peeps reading this thinking it is a good idea too!!! Will be paying off my credit card ******* quick now so I can get this sorted...........jeeeeeezzzz Nikki is going to be happy at saving some money! :hump: :kissing2:

Just another note...........if you change cars frequently...........it is only £500 to take it off your old car and replace it onto your new purchase! That in my opinion is damn cheap too........not a lot of labour or parts costs!

Jim

[Jay-ZS+]

Nice assume with emissions reduced manis may not be an mot issue either :)

[Boot Hill Bandit]

Nice assume with emissions reduced manis may not be an mot issue either :)

Well I have no pre cat or cat anyway............although I am after something to match up the Janspeed manis to the Piper system.

Would be good to go from a 2.25" pipe to the flexi and then step up to 2.50"........would blend in nicely then.

Jim

[Jay-ZS+]

Did it pass an MOT with no precat or cat then??!

[StragglaSteve]

it CAN be run as a MONO system i.e the only fuel.............The tank sits in the spare wheel well approx 56 litres.........and does not encroach on boot space at all.

if your using the gas as the only fuel and there is no need for petrol, how comes they dont use/replace the old fuel tank? would mean you can keep your spare wheel!

also did you shop arround? £2000 is the most expensive price i had seen when i did a quick google search!

Heres a few i found with listed prices (range from number of cylinders, all include vat)
Capitalautogas range from £1,291 to £1,879
Professautogas range from £950 to £1,400
Autogas Solutions range from £1,150 to £1,600

[Boot Hill Bandit]

Did it pass an MOT with no precat or cat then??!

No have to swap it out but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it did pass withut a cat.

Jim

[Boot Hill Bandit]

if your using the gas as the only fuel and there is no need for petrol, how comes they dont use/replace the old fuel tank? would mean you can keep your spare wheel!

also did you shop arround? £2000 is the most expensive price i had seen when i did a quick google search!

Heres a few i found with listed prices (range from number of cylinders, all include vat)
Capitalautogas range from £1,291 to £1,879
Professautogas range from £950 to £1,400
Autogas Solutions range from £1,150 to £1,600

He said he would be happy to make my system a mono one at no extra cost. He said my old tank could then be removed no problem. You can't use the original petrol tank as LPG is a compressed gas and I don't believe the std petrol tank would take the freezing cold fuel.

I don't think it is a good idea to have an LPG tank under the car......a few clatters over speed bumps and I would be ******** myself. Liquified Petrolium Gas is great but I wouldn't want to be standing anywhere near a tank that ruptured........it travels low down rather than rising. A few seconds of exposure would be enough to burn you badly like getting frostbite.

The difference is where the injectors are going to be installed........plus the quality of the parts. Papa did a 'cheaper' conversion and the system was *****. I am happy to pay more and expect absolute quality and refinement as if nothing had changed on my car. I would hate to spend £900 - £1300 and the injectors to give poor running due to a lazy sod installing it not removing the inlet manifold and doing it properly. Then having to go to a proper installer for them to rip it out and deem it '*****'.

Jim

[starfire039]

I did 20,000 miles in my ZS, and I did a years worth of driving in it. Checked out the calculator, it would pay off in just over a year. I'll look into this when I finish uni!

[starfire039]

Also, my friend did his own LPG conversion on his Fiat Cinquento, bought all the parts for about £400 on ebay. He's laughing now!

[Boot Hill Bandit]

I did 20,000 miles in my ZS, and I did a years worth of driving in it. Checked out the calculator, it would pay off in just over a year. I'll look into this when I finish uni!

Every 20,000 miles the LPG system needs a service........it is a few filters which you could do yourself...........but no point as you would want to keep the warranty.......all simple stuff.

I really am sold on this. Above all the other bits my car needs this would save me money. Can't think of any other mods that save you money..........maybe tyres but I think that is more to do with correct inflation.

Jim

[Boot Hill Bandit]

Also, my friend did his own LPG conversion on his Fiat Cinquento, bought all the parts for about £400 on ebay. He's laughing now!

Why? :blink: is it leaking into the car??? Should have gone to a professional :no:

Jim

[Boot Hill Bandit]

MG ZS180

PLEASE NOTE THESE ARE SPECIAL ONE OFF PRICES FOR KITS IN STOCK, AND CAN NOT BE REPEATED WHEN THEY ARE GONE THEY ARE GONE.

Dear Sir/madam

Thank you for your LPG conversion enquiry regarding the above vehicle

As one of the countries leading, and oldest converters, with over 10 years exprience we can promise you a superb service, and as we only supply and fit the highest quality equipment we promise unrivalled performance and reliability.

As I am sure you can appreciate your enquiry is for a very popular vehicle to convert and lends itself readily so. However if a poor choice of equipment and converter is made, what should be a joy of half price motoring quickly becomes a pain.

The prices for the conversion includes VAT, tyre sealant where needed,13mm fast fill hosing not 8mm copper, and a proper UK filler not a screw together adaptor along with the largest LPG tank possible for your car.

PRINS £ 2000 INC. VAT

BRC SEQ £ 1750 INC. VAT

PLEASE NOTE AS WE ARE A QUALITY SUPPLIER WE DO NOT USE OR SUPPLY ANY POLISH OR EASTERN EUROPEAN SYSTEMS WE HAVE TRIED THEM THEY ARE RUBBISH,THIS INCLUDES, KME, STAG, GS1, EASYGAS ETC

This quotation is valid for 30 days.

All of the above systems will perform perfectly but for many reasons, usually technical if we have recommended

A particular system it is will be for a specific reason, if you would like to know why, please call

These are all 4th or 5th generation fully sequential systems, that are top of the range in their price bracket, please do not compare them price wise with vastly inferior equipment that some convertors may offer you. they are fully automatic in operation and carry a 2yr unlimited mileage manufacturer's warranty. (Except Prins which is 3 years.)

Tank fitment is 70 litres in place of spare wheel

System is also fully transferable from vehicle to vehicle.

We can aslo include a courtesy vehicle If required (subject to hire) WE CAN ALSO COLLECT AND DELIVER WITH A COURTESY VEHICLE DELIVERED TO YOU, EITHER AT WORK OR HOME IF REQUIRED, SO THERE IS NO NEED FOR YOU TO TRAVEL (subject to conditions)

I have enclosed some brochures to help you understand the operation of sequential gas injection, over other and older cheaper systems.

Please click on the links, all files are checked safe to open.

FOR PRINS VSI FOLLOW

http://www.prins-lpg.com/view_attachment/2/vsi-lpg_english.pdf

FOR BRC SEQUENT FOLLOW

http://www.brc.it

We will also try to beat any other quote you may have received for any system from an LPGA approved convertor

As one of the oldest converters in the business we have unrivalled expertise in all makes and types of equipment.

We currently offer the 2 brands of sequential as listed above, although we are fully trained and approved in many others. The 2 brands listed above offer you, the choice between the manufacturers and are all of the highest quality

In their price band. As an LPGA approved converter all prices include full LPGA certification for your insurance needs. PLEASE BE AWARE NOT HAVING THIS GENUINE CERTIFICATION MAY MEAN YOU ARE NOT INSURED.

State of the art technology meaning No Performance Loss
Fuel costs 50% of petrol per litre.
Fuel Duty fixed until 2015
Lower fuel bills cut costs by up to 50%
Fuel tanks hidden away in the spare wheel well
Adds value to your car
20% Saving in C02 emissions
Lowest ever Conversion Prices while stocks last.
Finance Arranged (subject to status)
LPGA approved and trained installers for Quality Conversions

If I can help further please contact me.

And remember ..... Quality is remembered long after the price..............

[Tony10]

Jim where is this guy located?

I might give them a shout too.

[Dan1971]

A guy on XPF - "Gary the snail" has just done this on his Mk1 for about £1500.

He might be worth speaking to.

http://forums.xpowerforums.com/showthread.php?t=53011

[Gavspav]

Must have missed this :hmm: I've got a Prins in my 180, and so far it has all worked fine. Mine runs on petrol for a minute or so ( abit longer when we had the -15 over the winter) and automatically switches to gas. You may notice a slight performance reduction, but I've compared for fun by switching the gas on and off and well, it's a small reduction if any. Not really noticable on the road. My gas tank is in the spare wheel bay - I'm in the ADAC over here and I'm not required by law to carry a spare, but as I haven't had a puncture for about 7 years....They did a test here by the way and crashed trains into gas tanks to see if they would explode, and all they did was dent it slightly, no leakeage at all. My petrol costs me as of yesterday EURO 1,40 and gas EURO 58,9 and despite the slight increase in consumption its still a no brainer financially. Pays for itself in 40000km which is what, 24,000 miles? Oh, you will probably notice a slight increase in oil consumption. Don't know why, but I bet one of the clever boffins on here does. Hope this helps.

[Tony10]

Having spoken to a local conversion guy who fits BRC mutli point systems he was talkings about the lash lube. This is for lubricating the valves i believe it comes as an extra with there kit but is essential not to knacker your engine. Does prins system have this built in? I got a quote from my local prins fitter he quoted 1950 but no courtesey car for me though.

[Boot Hill Bandit]

Jim where is this guy located?

I might give them a shout too.

Milton Keynes I do believe! Company is Gas4Cars.......

Jim

[Dave ZS-X]

good idea if you do the mileage to make it pay for itself, 1500 quid buys a lot of petrol.
Assuming a full tank of petrol costs 66 quid and gas would be roughly half that at 33 quid then it would take 46 full tanks of gas to pay for the conversion, at 250 miles per tank that would equate to 11500 miles before your saving money as it were.
Got to be worth a good mulling over if you do them kind of miles i suppose.
If not its a nice set of new wheels and tyres, lol.

[Boot Hill Bandit]

:laugh: true!!! although I am happy with the wheels just want to make the damn car cost less to run as the baby grows up!!! More money saved in fuel bills would mean more going out and spending the money on my family :happy:

Jim