Timing Belts **DATE SET!!**

[Smokey]

So as most are aware, Ill be changing the belts before fitting the new engine in the site track car. So is this what I need?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rover-45-75-825-MGZS-MGZT-V6-Timing-Cam-belts-set-3-/230524863650?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item35ac5a44a2#ht_1142wt_922

if not can someone point me in the right direction?

Also, does anyone local have the tools for changing them?

Cheers.

[petet16]

Dayco are a good brand, you would need the tensioner in addition to the belts.

There is another Dayco kit which includes the tensioner, I think it costs just over ?100.

[Leigh_EvoIX]

So as most are aware, Ill be changing the belts before fitting the new engine in the site track car. So is this what I need?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Rover-45-75-825-MGZS-MGZT-V6-Timing-Cam-belts-set-3-/230524863650?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item35ac5a44a2#ht_1142wt_922

if not can someone point me in the right direction?

Also, does anyone local have the tools for changing them?

Cheers.

Can rent the kit here...

[peterzs]

Is it best to do the water pump at the same time.

Is it worth having a word with George, think I remember him offering to help if he had the time, he has just done Lawrence's V6.

Or has someone else offered to give you a hand???

:wave::wave::wave:

[stamford]

For what the pump costs, you might as well, I did.

[Smokey]

Linkys?

[peterzs]

What would Dreadnought charge, to take the old engine out, do belts, tensioners, waterpump, oil seals on the new engine and put that in.

Dont know how busy they are but could be a nursery job to do, as and when.

Can only tell you to get st*****.

Or any other garage up your way that have experience of V6 180.

:wave::wave::wave::wave:

[Smokey]

The issue would then be cost. The budget would cover the belts, tensioner and water pump but very little else. Would also like to get the experienced guys involved being a site car with the personal touch.

Pete, any word on the stickers with donators names or going on the car?

[peterzs]

I'll give him a ring tomorrow, let you know what he says.

Be better and cheaper if you can get the guys that know, to give a hand.

Now the weather is a bit better might have some more volunteers, hope so.

:wave::wave::wave:

[Smokey]

Yeah, hope so. As soon as the snow clears from the car I plan on draining it of oil, taging each pipe that is to be disconnected and tagging the new engine at the same sections for easy swap.

[Smokey]

Okay, am moving house in 4 weeks and was thinking it might be an idea to get the engine fitted before moving if possible.

To do this I would like a comprehensive list of things that will need purchased in order to complete the engine swap. I don't want to, on the day, discover I am missing one clip/screw or whatever and be stuck.

So anyone with experience of a straight swap, can you tell me what I will need for the project?

Any specialist tools to do the actual swap? Will there be any bolts/pipes etc that will defo need replaced not reused?

LIST
Belts/tensioners and tools (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Timing-Belt-kit-Rover-45-75-MG-ZS-ZT-2-5-v6-CAM-BELT-/250636418507?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3a5b183dcb - this the right one?)
Water pump (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MG-ZS-ZT-V6-KV6-ROVER-45-75-WATER-PUMP-2-0-2-5-LTR-/130371403750?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1e5abdbfe6 - seriously this expensive?!)

.....anything else?

[JIMZS180]

okay, am moving house in 4 weeks and was thinking it might be an idea to get the engine fitted before moving if possible.

To do this i would like a comprehensive list of things that will need purchased in order to complete the engine swap. I don't want to, on the day, discover i am missing one clip/screw or whatever and be stuck.

So anyone with experience of a straight swap, can you tell me what i will need for the project?

Any specialist tools to do the actual swap? Will there be any bolts/pipes etc that will defo need replaced not reused?

list
belts/tensioners and tools (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/timing-belt-kit-rover-45-75-mg-zs-zt-2-5-v6-cam-belt-/250636418507?pt=uk_carsparts_vehicles_carparts_sm&hash=item3a5b183dcb - this the right one?)
water pump (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/mg-zs-zt-v6-kv6-rover-45-75-water-pump-2-0-2-5-ltr-/130371403750?pt=uk_carsparts_vehicles_carparts_sm&hash=item1e5abdbfe6 - seriously this expensive?!)

.....anything else?

you moving into town blair??

[peterzs]

Engine hoist, jacks, axle stands, all new filters, new oil, antifreeze, gearbox oil, if you loose any when you take drive shafts out.

Dont throw anything away from the first engine till the new ones up and running.

I'd get some assorted jubilee clips, dont know how the fuel pipe comes off, but know O rings can be a difficult to get hold of, expect the pipe can just be unclipped from the filter.

Track rod nut splitter if you have to take drive shafts out, check suspension bushes, might be easier to change if its all split down.

I'd get some plastic tubs, ice cream, butter etc, mark with marker pen, mounting bolts, rad bolts etc as you take them out it all makes sense but if you end up with a big box of bolts its fun trying to remember where they all go back. Allways seem to be one left in the bottom of the box anyway.

This goes back to doing one of the daughters minis, but that was easier as you could just lift the body over the front subframe!!!

If you can take plenty of pictures so you can refer back.

Thats a start, but will plenty I've left off.

Whats the thermostat/housing like, when its out will be easier to do, same as the clutch. I've never pulled an engine out without putting in a new clutch kit, so easy when its all out, but down to the pennies in this case.

Best of luck.

:smile1::smile1::smile1::smile1:

[Smokey]

Wow thanks for the list, pretty extensive and a few things I would never have thought of. More money though lol.

[coreygraham180]

Wow thanks for the list, pretty extensive and a few things I would never have thought of. More money though lol.

I'll get plenty of ice cream boxes .........lol

Well that is quite a list when I was in the garage we done a engine transplant on a mondeo and simply took out the old one and put the new one in no changes and then ran it for a half hour to Make sure then I left the garage that day so dunno if it came back

[Smokey]

I guess in theory we could do that but considering it's purpose, best to keep it well maintained.

[Smokey]

Had another though...could be money saving....

I have the receipt for the belt change that was done on the now defunked engine...it was done 4,000 miles ago. The pump was also replaced then so can I just leave that one as is?

Also can I reuse the tensioners for the belts?

[coreygraham180]

Had another though...could be money saving....

I have the receipt for the belt change that was done on the now defunked engine...it was done 4,000 miles ago. The pump was also replaced then so can I just leave that one as is?

Also can I reuse the tensioners for the belts?

Well that would mean they are only 6% through there life so I would imagine so

[peterzs]

Life's a gamble, if money was no object, throw everything out and start with good quality new, if its tight go with the alternative.

If its all genuine, think I would leave as is.

Something else you need, will be lifting chains or a couple of strops, I used lifting eyes, that were bolted onto a couple of head bolts. Dont know if the V6 has them, or you need to get them. Or use mounting brackets etc.

Other things I'd get hold of would be a pry bar and a tool for lineing up mounting bolts, like a screwdriver but tapered.

Why you need them is that its so easy to reach down to align, jiggle, free, a sticking bolt/plate/pipe. It only needs the engine to slip, chain to break, someone lean on a wing and a jack slip and whoosh, crushed finger or worse.

Dont think it wont happen, as it does. Lifting out my MGB engine with a hoist, I hadnt run the bolt down all the way in the excitement and bang, shot off into the roof and the engine dropped. Lucky nothing was in the way, but you will be dealing with a heavy lump that will not want to move, and will fight you all the way.

Suppose you need to seal all pipes etc of the new engine, so nothing can fall in when its going in, and try and plug all the pipes on the old engine, as no matter how much has been drained off, there will always be some left to spill on the floor.

Tie off all pipes, wires, cables so they are well out the way, its amazing how one wire can hold the engine, on its way out, or in.

Cant think of anything else and dont want to worry you, but if you havnt pulled an engine out, I'd sooner you know now of the pitfalls. Hope i'm not sounding like i'm trying to teach you to suck eggs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:wave::wave::wave::yay::yay:

[Smokey]

Mate, its great to get all the infor from someone who has been there!

And Jim, moving nearer to my work in Crieff....like 2 streets away from it!

[Smokey]

Further question...I know this is a difficult job while the engine is in the car, but how much less difficult will it be while the engine is out? I have no experience in doing this so will be easy enough for me with the engine out or risky at best?

Oh, and why do we replace the water pump when doing the belts exactly?

[rakester]

Further question...I know this is a difficult job while the engine is in the car, but how much less difficult will it be while the engine is out? I have no experience in doing this so will be easy enough for me with the engine out or risky at best?

Oh, and why do we replace the water pump when doing the belts exactly?

Because it's a pain the arse to do at a later date with the engine / belts in place, whilst belts are off, do it.

[Jay-ZS+]

Would have thought it's about 50% easier with the engine out. Half the battle seems to be space. There are a few guides of xpf of diy belt change.

[Dave MGT]

What every you do, for gods sake! CHANGE THEM WITH THE ENGINE OUT!!!!!!!
Its sooooo much easier.
Its crazy not to if its already out.

[Smokey]

I plan on doing it with the engine out, I was just guaging how difficult the job is got an amateur like me!

Do water pumps have a life expectancy?

[KevG]

Most if not all engines that get a timing belt replaced also get the water pump done too, it is purely for piece of mind, it is the same when doing any gearbox work, your better to replace the clutch unless it is already new, that is my opinion anyway.

[peterzs]

Also as you have to change the gear box its only 8 or so bolts to take off the cover and check the clutch plate, and also check the release bearing. I'd renew, unless its only just been done, specially if it going to get a bit of a hammering on the track!!!!

Its all a trade off, you have done 95% of the work to change the water pump, they do fail and if you have to go back in, its like another belt change. Might be lucky and the old pump go on for ever, or!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Same as the clutch and thermostat.

Dont think I would fancy timeing up a V6, Could just about do the midget and MGB engines, do the V6's have belts at both end of the block???

I've seen the belts at the front but I have a feeling there are more belts at the back of the engine, driving the camshaft??? Or was that just a nasty dream??

If you can get George to give a hand, as he will have the locking tools and the experience, might be easier.

:wave::wave::wave:

[Smokey]

Lol the list of things could be change are endless but this was a budget buy for cheap thrills. It would have been on the track this month had the engine not seized so I have no plans to replace clutch etc unless an issue arises.

Once the engine is in and working it will be on track

[peterzs]

I've emailed Gary at UK signs asking about stickers, not had a reply yet, will chase him up or have a look down here.

[rakester]

Don't see the gearbox lasting long on track with the poop OE bearings in it, I know it's extra cost but you should go steel caged.

Saves future headaches

[Smokey]

Unfortunately, I cant afford to fund that this year :(

[peterzs]

Think we will scare Smokey off in a minute.

:mbounce::mbounce::mbounce::mbounce:

[Smokey]

Lol getting that way!

I'm not looking for thr perfect track beast, I did it for cheap track fun for the site and at the end of the day, had it not been for the donators, the car would be in Leicester right now!

All we need is to get the engine in and running so we can have some fun. The belts will get changed as it would be suicide on the engine not too. But until it's running, I won't be able to put more money in to it and don't want more donations until we have had a track day or two first!

[Supercharged_Z]

Don't see the gearbox lasting long on track with the poop OE bearings in it, I know it's extra cost but you should go steel caged.

Saves future headaches

i wouldnt worry about this at all.

Running 260 odd bhp with the supercharged car i did over 150 runs at pod and a few track days as nasp and supercharged and had not one issue or whine!!

they must be impoved in the newer cars

[MG6Turbo]

Ive got to come up to Glasgow over the next week, so i may be able to bring the tools and do the job.

G

[Smokey]

George, that would be fricking awesome mate! I'll order the belts. What will I need to do the whole job?

[Ritchy]

whahaay, thanks george

[BUCKYDEVIL]

Ive got to come up to Glasgow over the next week, so i may be able to bring the tools and do the job.

G

:mbounce:
Amazing offer.

[grimmy]

Sounds like a result

[peterzs]

Ive got to come up to Glasgow over the next week, so i may be able to bring the tools and do the job.

G

Great offer, see another sticker being ordered.

:smile1::smile1::smile1:

[lawrence-zs180]

thats awsome news.

[mgzsturbo2008]

The reason it is advisable tochange the water pump at the same time as the belt is that a water pump can fail at any time and being driven by the cam belt it can ruin your engine. say if the bearings give up in the pump? the timing belt becomes slack and bye bye valves.
Also as for changing the clutch and bits and bobs if it aint broken dont fix it. A long as its good to last for a while then use it. I have seen a few cars with water pump failure and plenty of smashed valves.
Just swapped 2 engines this weekend (1.8t out of zs into zr and 1.8k from a 45 into a zs)
I could have spent endless money renewing parts but as long as its gonna last a while then thats all that matters. Thinking of the pennies!

[peterzs]

The reason it is advisable tochange the water pump at the same time as the belt is that a water pump can fail at any time and being driven by the cam belt it can ruin your engine. say if the bearings give up in the pump? the timing belt becomes slack and bye bye valves.
Also as for changing the clutch and bits and bobs if it aint broken dont fix it. A long as its good to last for a while then use it. I have seen a few cars with water pump failure and plenty of smashed valves.
Just swapped 2 engines this weekend (1.8t out of zs into zr and 1.8k from a 45 into a zs)
I could have spent endless money renewing parts but as long as its gonna last a while then thats all that matters. Thinking of the pennies!

Agree with all that, not free next week are you?????

:smile1::smile1::smile1:

[ZS]

MGRover's official line is only to replace the Pump if it is leaking... Therefore you have to request it is done or else they won't do it.

[rakester]

i wouldnt worry about this at all.

Running 260 odd bhp with the supercharged car i did over 150 runs at pod and a few track days as nasp and supercharged and had not one issue or whine!!

they must be impoved in the newer cars

Hmm to my knowledge all the PG1's use the same type of plastic shielded bearings (new and old) and common thing with the turbo boys is to steel cage the boxes (t16 engine use same gearbox).

Shall look more into this as if you are right will save me a headache of ripping my current box apart :)

[mgzsturbo2008]

Agree with all that, not free next week are you?????

:smile1::smile1::smile1:

HA i wish i was free. Always fixing someones car. for example last weekend on friday night i finished work at 5:30 came back at 8pm stayed untill 7:10 am the next morning putting and engine into a zs then spent the remainder of the day untill 1 working then satyed untill 7pm putting a turbo engine into my zr . If you was closer i wouldnt mind helping at all. I have a passion for mgs and cars i love doing what i do :):hump:

[peterzs]

HA i wish i was free. Always fixing someones car. for example last weekend on friday night i finished work at 5:30 came back at 8pm stayed untill 7:10 am the next morning putting and engine into a zs then spent the remainder of the day untill 1 working then satyed untill 7pm putting a turbo engine into my zr . If you was closer i wouldnt mind helping at all. I have a passion for mgs and cars i love doing what i do :):hump:

Used to be a bit like that with my MGB, went back into our workshop, pulled engine out or whatever, but the wife used to come with me and about midnight started to get an ear tug.

I'm sure you would help if poss, hope the turbo ZR's going well.

:smile1::smile1::smile1:

[Smokey]

Well I am extremely please that you are able to help George. If you could pm me a contact number we can arrange the finer details.

Will need to know what parts are needed other than belts/tensioners if anything and if you need a place to stay for the night and some food, I can provide both :)

Once George has done the belts with me, who will be available in the following 2 weeks to come and offer experienced help swapping the engines? (food/bed can be provided too!)

[ZS]

Shame your too far north Smokey, otherwise I'd offer a helping hand :)

Maybe we need a Track car down south too... hmmmm....

[grimmy]

As said previously i will lend a hand as much as I can

[Smokey]

Cheers Grimmy...and ZS...this track car will be making its debut down south this year

[ZS]

Cheers Grimmy...and ZS...this track car will be making its debut down south this year

If it comes down to my local Circuit (GoodWood) and you need somewhere to stay just shout :) (Assuming you don't mind kids)

[Smokey]

Well gonna get over the engine fitting hurdle first lol

[JIMZS180]

just give us a shout m8

[stamford]

Shame your too far north Smokey, otherwise I'd offer a helping hand :)

Maybe we need a Track car down south too... hmmmm....

I have thought about this, but the initial costs for a track day would be fairly high and drivers need to be registered and paid for in advance afaik. If my car became off the road permanately then I may consider it later on.

[Smokey]

I have also considered leaving the track car for 2 or 3 track days down south this year, under the watchful eye of a site owner/member

[Smokey]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-GENUINE-MG-ROVER-45-ZS-75-ZT-V6-TIMING-BELT-KIT-W-/280568528136?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item41532ffd08

Is this all I need?
Seems to mention a further tensioner?!

[peterzs]

Think I would email the reg No. and let them get back to you.

Dont suppose we could buy all the bits off George, as he is fitting these all day, will have the right bits and bobs. He might feel better fitting parts that he uses as well.

Just a thought.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[MG6Turbo]

I can supply the belts/pump/tensioner/guide pulley

I dont use the cheapest as its a big job to try and cost cut with budget parts.

G

[Smokey]

As you know I have the donation kitty which is ?140 remaining. Can you give me the exact cost please George so I can work things out?

Also is the water pump attached to the engine block or will that need to be done when the old engine is removed?

[Smokey]

Well I have further good news on this one....

George is coming over monday to change the belts so it will be a step closer to fitting the engine!

It is costing ?160 to replace the parts (belts/tensioners/water pump) so the kitty is now completely empty but the biggest expenses are over!

Need to hire an engine hoist and get oil/antifreeze/jubilee clips/oil seals and that should get the engine in and running!

Anyone got spare jubilee's or anything that could help save a penny or two?!

Oh and I will be getting stickers for the donators onto the car soon so will look similar to this photoshopped image....

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff96/smokeysworld/sponsors-1.jpg

Dont forget, if your name appears on the car, you get priority on track day driver selection

[tb steve]

cool sounds good

ive just thought i have a set of o/e springs in the loft if you need them and a CAT as well i was thinking that you could smack the cat out and use it as a free de-cat ??
let me know tho as jake has the cat that he borrowed 3 YEARS AGO

[coreygraham180]

Well I have further good news on this one....

George is coming over monday to change the belts so it will be a step closer to fitting the engine!

It is costing ?160 to replace the parts (belts/tensioners/water pump) so the kitty is now completely empty but the biggest expenses are over!

Need to hire an engine hoist and get oil/antifreeze/jubilee clips/oil seals and that should get the engine in and running!

Anyone got spare jubilee's or anything that could help save a penny or two?!

Oh and I will be getting stickers for the donators onto the car soon so will look similar to this photoshopped image....

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff96/smokeysworld/sponsors-1.jpg

Dont forget, if your name appears on the car, you get priority on track day driver selection

If you run out of space for the donators I am happy to go on the front bumper then I would literally has the fastest lap time lol

[Smokey]

Lol that's everyone who has donated so unless others donate then it will fit! Get your licence and you'll have a drive in it!

It does have a de-cat on it, fairly new too but thanks for the offer. The springs could come in handy at any point lol!

[peterzs]

Thanks George, Smokey needs a bit of good luck with this, be great to get it back together.

:smile1::smile1::smile1::smile1:

[stamford]

Very good news on the latest update, pleased it is finally coming together.

[coreygraham180]

Lol that's everyone who has donated so unless others donate then it will fit! Get your licence and you'll have a drive in it!

It does have a de-cat on it, fairly new too but thanks for the offer. The springs could come in handy at any point lol!

I think only one name is missing jimzs180

But you can squeeze him anywhere lol

[MG6Turbo]

Glad to be of help.. And a big thank you to Alan F who will be my chauffeur for the day..

G

[stamford]

Hats off to you George, just shows what a community we have here, well done all and looking forward to seeing this car this year.

[lawrence-zs180]

thats great news.. and the mock up looks good to, cant wait to see it in the flesh so to speak.

[Smokey]

Well as mentioned, later in the year I plan on leaving the car in the capable hands of Stamford or whoever wants to be responsible for it so that it will go to a few track days down south. That way, everyone on the site has a chance to see/be passenger/drive it on track!

And have added Jim :)

[lawrence-zs180]

sweeeet.. might have to try and arrange a goodwood track day then

[peterzs]

Around beginning of March, hint, hint.

:smile1::smile1::smile1:

[lawrence-zs180]

lol christ thats a bit soon I gotta do a rep cake of it first... oh yea er smokie can I have some pics of the beast at some point so i can do a cake of it for the southern meet : smile :

[Smokey]

sure, can get photos in the next week or so.

And March is a tad optimistic lol, will need to have a few Scottish meeets and track days first :) I want some Knockhill fun!!

[lawrence-zs180]

nice one dude cheers.
Yea they do come good days down here and its not to expensive to have a 'sole use' track day at goodwood... think its about 10-30 cars max db of 100 on each but its been a while since I looked it up.

[stamford]

I have the room so not an issue for parking the zed off road ;) I'll check out the track days looming up later in the year that will suit a few drivers.

[lawrence-zs180]

cool hopefully my beast will be sorted and I can have a go on track.

[JIMZS180]

Got a box of new assorted jubilees in the shed somewhere..will bring them along to "transplant day"

[Smokey]

Cheers Jim! Transplant Day....shall put that on my calendar lol