Looking into Turboing a KV6

[lawrence-zs180]

Some of you may have seen that Im looking into turboing a KV6 and I have been doing a fair bit of homework on the idea.
Its looking like I would be running a T25 or poss a T28 at 4-5psi with double decomp plates which would hopefully give me between 230-240bhp whilst keeping the standard internals.
I would keep the normal injectors but run a uprated fuel pressure reg and I'm hoping the standard fuel pump would cope.. I'm assuming they didn't change the pump for the supercharged version?
It would have a fmic in the space between the bumper and I would run the piping the same way as the t16's with fmic so I keep the engine bay as free from extra bits as poss, battery would go to the boot so I could lose that to.
Biggest issue's are finding somewhere to put the turbo and what to do about the inlet manifold... and I think I might have found a solution to the exhaust and turbo fitting.
A few yank companys do a turbo exhaust kit for the honda accord which has the same manifold bolt arrangement as the kv6 so im getting the full specs sent over and with it branching off right out of the front bank it might fit and save a hell of alot of hassle and expense.
The inlet manifold is going to be a issue because if I gutt a knackered normal manifold I will still have to blank off the vis and some other parts and I'm not sure if it will be good enough to take the extra pressure.
Is there another rover v6 manifold or is the metal one off the old rover v6 the only one?
I will have to get a custom ecu as well.. I have always been pointed towards emerald do you guys use one thats poss better suited??

Im on the hunt for a cheap 180 at the min so im not going to start a project thread till I have one, this thread is mainly about hearing your thoughts and ideas etc on the idea...
cheers guys

[peterzs]

Have you seen Dan's, (carmadbaker) build thread, know its not a V6 but had the same problems to overcome.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm214/peterzs/4-3.jpg

Sounds fun.

[big_wasa]

Ive nearly finished my other toy project and am thinking of doing a turbo mk2 zed.

I still think the way forward is a four pot. Like the vag 20v turbo

[caled]

Sounds like a fun idea, but curious as to why you've chosen to try and turbo charge the KV6?
Pushing boundaries?

[Jay-ZS+]

A twin turbo V6 would be epic but not sure the Kv6 is the best one to use.

Would be awsome if you can pull it off lawrence!! :thumbsup:

[Ritchy]

think main issue people bought up in the past was where to mount the turbo, ver the gearbox was one option and the other was in the passenger footwell
i think if your chasing power then Dan's car is the way to go, the best turbo build ive ever seen in any of the MG cars

for that could get a spares repairs zs, and a rover 420 for parts and rebuild the engine ect with aftermarket ecu and obviosly turbo manifolds turbo ect

but if you re going kv6 turbo il be very keen to see it built! sounds a cracking project

[OllieZS]

Fantastic idea!

You should definetly pursue it, this is something I have been planning to start researching myself, I personally would be looking into the twin turbo setup.

Im still a way off this myself as im sorting the chassis and brakes first!
But go for it!:beer2:

[rakester]

This would be sweet but I hope you have deep deep pockets :)

[fastmike]

To get the kind of power your after 240/260 I suspect you,l need a bigger turbo than a T28..and a lower (8.5-1) compression ratio.....an uprated fuel pump will deffenatley be needed along with bigger injectors.... not forgetting a knock sensor and an aftermarket ECU to keep the thing running.
BUT..... before even getting that far ...... I doubt theres enough room under the ZS bonnet for a KV6 and all the pipework for the induction/intercooler

[big_wasa]

What about running a single turbo as a back box. There has been a few articals in the car mags about it.

[rakester]

To get the kind of power your after 240/260 I suspect you,l need a bigger turbo than a T28..and a lower (8.5-1) compression ratio.....an uprated fuel pump will deffenatley be needed along with bigger injectors.... not forgetting a knock sensor and an aftermarket ECU to keep the thing running.
BUT..... before even getting that far ...... I doubt theres enough room under the ZS bonnet for a KV6 and all the pipework for the induction/intercooler

Fuel pump won't need upgrading, people use 1.2 k series fuel pumps (albeit they are the same across the range anyway) on t16 cars up to 300bhp with no problems.

T28 easily enough for 240-260

Injectors also probably fine for 240-260 however I don't know much about standard KV6 injectors.

[Ritchy]

What about running a single turbo as a back box. There has been a few articals in the car mags about it.

you want a turbo fairly close to the manifold for maximum pressure

[lawrence-zs180]

Why am I trying it... because noone has managed to do it, everyone seems to be doing t16 conversions, and I want to try my hand at it but like I said there is still more homework to be done before I take the plunge.
Its gonna be a big enough pita to fit one turbo so a tt 180 is looking like its almost impossible haha.
This would happen over a year or so... or prob even longer due to cost etc.
Dan's does look epic and I cant wait to see it but its that V6 noise with a turbo im hunting for haha.

[rakester]

I know nothing about V6 engines either but due to there design I'd imagine a twin turbo setup would be easier anyway than a single turbo setup.

But yup go for it, I'm the first to admit I went T16 as it's the easiest option :)

[Ritchy]

hats off to you mate!

[Jay-ZS+]

Injectors also probably fine for 240-260 however I don't know much about standard KV6 injectors.

Believe Ross had the injectors flow tested and they were good for 300bhp,

Be worth speaking to Ross and George to find out the standard components that are the weak points with the KV6

[lawrence-zs180]

Remote turbos.... just as much hassle because of the extra piping and the armour you have to put round the turbo to protect it from stones etc and you end up with less psi.

Gonna give george a call/pm at some point and have a chat... or maybe go and see him when the missis goes to see her family.

[rakester]

Believe Ross had the injectors flow tested and they were good for 300bhp,

Be worth speaking to Ross and George to find out the standard components that are the weak points with the KV6

Ah sweet, cool info :)

I'd think most components are good for 240-260, it's a well known fact that the ZS opens up well to a couple of breathing mods. The reason it was the 180 and not the 190 as it would have been stepping on the ZT 190's shoes.

So presuming the ZS started off as 190bhp, a 50-70bhp increase isn't massive figures to be pushing but getting on the brink of having to upgrade a lot of other components.

A couple of small fast spooling turbo's would be ideal for this application. However once it's up and running you can have the potential to go utterly mad on it if you desire and can upgrade others components and push big figures (forged pistons/rods, uprated head bolts, bigger turbo's etc). I think without a doubt you will need an aftermarket management system anyway, again ECU's are still very foreign to me.

[coreygraham180]

I am very interested in this as it looks a very good idea and maby open the gates to future owners looking to do the same and I can imagine the v6 the the turbo wooooooosh lol

[lawrence-zs180]

Yea deff need a new ecu... even a piggyback might struggle with it.
Just been having a caht with Drew and he said the decomp plate would only be needed if I was after 10-12 psi but with a rebuild i could have 5psi with no issues.
I would seem about right that the internals of the 180 where good for 260bhp because of the supercharged version and I dont think they would have changed loads just to add a supercharger.
If there was room two t3 turbos would be epic but even with the battery and air box removed its still gonna be tight as fudge in there... gonna mean half the mod out if something daft fails in the engine bay as well haha.

[rakester]

Yea deff need a new ecu... even a piggyback might struggle with it.
Just been having a caht with Drew and he said the decomp plate would only be needed if I was after 10-12 psi but with a rebuild i could have 5psi with no issues.
I would seem about right that the internals of the 180 where good for 260bhp because of the supercharged version and I dont think they would have changed loads just to add a supercharger.
If there was room two t3 turbos would be epic but even with the battery and air box removed its still gonna be tight as fudge in there... gonna mean half the mod out if something daft fails in the engine bay as well haha.

Battery to boot ftw, unless you want it looking OE :)

[lawrence-zs180]

lol na deff bat in the boot.. If I can get it back in there after fitting everything then I would but i just dont see it fitting somehow haha

[Supercharged_Z]

if you want to run 260 bhp go and buy some pistons imo.

injetors @3bar were somthing like 47bhp each, but i cant remember the cycle rate, depending on hp i would suggest adding. to get 260 bhp from the superchaged setup i ran a custom additional injector.

the ringlands were weak on the pistons, but it was fuel related imo.

perhaps try and turbo the v6 as is, but keep a pot of money behind for forged pistons untill proven reliable, next weak link is the liners

[lawrence-zs180]

Cheers for the info... Im mainly looking at 230-250 bhp max anymore and its prob gonna mean another rebuild but yea I would deff keep money by for what could quite well be the inevitable.
Starting with 4-5 psi is what im looking at doing and then if it fits and works well and reliably then I would look to getting more out of her.. deff wouldn't be a daily as my current 180 will stay as that.

[MG6Turbo]

Firstly I wouldnt use an emerald on the kv6. DTA or Omex.

As for turboing, I looked into this with doing a twin turbo set up with forged pistons and different injectors and custom manifold. I reckoned 300bhp would have easily been achieved.

The problem is cost... I would say 8k would have been needed to build a reliable 300bhp twin turboed kv6..

The main issues are the pistons and liners.

To just uprate them it would cost nearly 2k alone and thats before injectors and custom manifold etc.

G

[carmadbaker]

Few little things worth thinking about too dude...
-the charger will need a good oil feed and drain
-charger will also need a coolant supply
-think about additional cooling, turbo cars run alot warmer than nasps. Underbonnets temps will be sky high in comparison
-For management go for omex, they are sooooo helpful and knowledgable their support is amazing. But only authorised omex dealers can map them, they can also knock you up a fully built loom to literally just plug in, again with that idle control may be an issue.
-As for injectors if your going omex aftermarket low impedance siemens injectors (say 660cc) should see you fine without the need to adjust fuel pressures.
-i would expect a t25 to easily see you up to 230bhp with very little lag!
-as for inlet i would consider having a custom one built, i can put u onto some usefull sources if needed.
All i can think of for now, but any questions ask away man. Not majorly clued up on kv6 capabilities, ross is deffinately your man for that. But blowers are deffinately up my street ;-)

[Maxxed_Ross]

Fuel pump won't need upgrading, people use 1.2 k series fuel pumps (albeit they are the same across the range anyway) on t16 cars up to 300bhp with no problems.

T28 easily enough for 240-260


when I had my T28R bolted to ASBO, a T series turbo, it was making 330bhp on 14psi I think it was. It did have an uprated fuel pump and constantly overheated

I'm hoping for the same figures out of the touring car, but with a more substantial engine build to handle it.

Supprisingly the fuel fump only needed uprated slightly to a TVR item, and I'm still using the standard ZS fuel filter

[stamford]

Nice idea just to say we did it, but I think the cost and amount of work required to get it there will be too much. The engine bay is tight enough as it is. Moving the battery does release some space but not much. Considering the fragility of the KV6 beyond 250 I would seriously think about another engine type, a more modern route as have already been seen. Not wanting to knock it, but being a realist I think it is just stretching the idea beyond practicality. But if you want to proceed for your own means and to attempt it then go for it, I'm sure we'll support you in anyway possible.

[Maxxed_Ross]

for that sort of cash a ?7k Reyland VAG conversion sounds a bit of a bargain

[Alan.F]

for that sort of cash a ?7k Reyland VAG conversion sounds a bit of a bargain

Even that failed eventually Ross wasn't publicised that much but it went

[p_b82]

the HG went on it from what i understand.. but the 400bhp ZR is still fine.... so a case of bad luck i think rather than 'it blew up' those vag units tend to be pretty reliable!

Back to this.. i think it is an awesome idea, but from having a project that is a money pit i do strongly suggest you think very long and hard about it.... you need to have a maximum amount of money you think you will spend and then double it to ensure you have the 'float' for when things go wrong....

I suspect you may need to have a bulge put in the bonnet to route the pipes, even with everything else squeezed out the way - the L-series sits a lot lower than the KV6 to enable the pipework to go from the back of the engine bay (turbo\exhaust) over the top

I needed to use the derv rad to enable me to route the FMIC as a single pass and still had to chop bits from the front to get it to fit - not laods but a little....

Either wya good luck with it; it would be an epic noise when done, and that torque would be lovely!

[Maxxed_Ross]

I'm sure I saw a picture of a KV6 fitted with a turbo, but it was right down the bottom of the block near where the two standard manifolds join

I'll need to see if I can find it

I remember seeing a BMW in something like Fast Car or Max power years ago that had the turbo INSIDE the car in the passenger footwell. That would certainly keep your toes warm in the winter

[caled]

Ok, so the turbo KV6 is gonna be pricey and has questions over the reliability above circa 250bhp, and the VAG option may end up chucking its guts up.

Is the T series really the best option for engine swapping a ZS to gain a high power output?

[ZS]

Is the T series really the best option for engine swapping a ZS to gain a high power output?



nah the L Series will fit and give good gains ;) lol

What about a V6 from another car? Like... say a TVR :p

[rakester]

Is the T series really the best option for engine swapping a ZS to gain a high power output?

Best?...probably not.

Best value for money?...most definitely

[stamford]

nah the L Series will fit and give good gains ;) lol

What about a V6 from another car? Like... say a TVR :p

V6 TVR.......were they not the early Ford engines? I thought all recent ones were of the Rover derived V8s?

Now that's a conversion that has always been stuck in my twisted mind.....................RWD supercharged V8 up front.

[ZS]

Now that's a conversion that has always been stuck in my twisted mind.....................RWD supercharged V8 up front.

Ahem... well err looking into that a few years back I'm convinced the Freelander running gear would fit to make it 4WD (although never went too deep into looking at it) and others tell me the Evo 3 (IIRC) running gear will fit perfect :p

Infact IIRC there is a ZR body running around somewhere on an Evo chassis, engine and transmission...

[Dave ZS-X]

my vag engine water pump impellor failed which obviously meant no coolant circulation, that wouldnt be a problem normally as you would notice the temps rising and just turn it off but i was ragging round cadwell park and the first i knew of it was lack of power and temp gauge through the roof, thing is i had done a few laps with the power fluctuating before i noticed the temp gauge.

Was no big issue tbh, martin skimmed 5 thou off the head just as a precaution and fitted a new gasket that was it, there was no guts spilt and no big engine rebuild.
I think thats remarkably good considering, id like to see the state of any rover engine after a similar whooopsie, lol.
If you want reliable big power theres no better option...just make sure you have a new water pump with metal impellor.!!!!

[fastmike]

The plastic water pump impellor failure is a common problem on the VAG 1.8..... metal impellor water pumps are available now

[Ritchy]

the vag conversion is definatly good, but id really like to see a kv6 twin turbo mereley as a technical exersize, no one else has a twin turbo v6 zs do they:)

still when it comes the time when my zs becomes a toy ather than the day to day car i still would like to look down the honda route, vtec suer or turbocharged would be rather nice under the zs i think

[Dave ZS-X]

yes a turbo kv6 would be nice and the sound i imagine would be something else but surely the main objective from turboing an engine has to be power increase and then the kv6 just doesnt make much sense, when you could just stick an old t series turbo in there and make more power for less money.
It would be an interesting one off but if its done its got to make some proper power to be a worthwhile project imo.

[lawrence-zs180]

It is something I really want to do.. but its still in the thought stage at the min and the was my current zed is chewing through my cash its going to take a while to get things started... need to have a basic start up cost and then go from there really or before I know it the project has chewed through 10k and all I have to show for is is some bloody expensive parts lol.
Cheers for the advice and support though guys.

[garymgzs180]

i know a chap with a supercharger kit for sale if your interested. full kit with modified oil pipes, bearings and piggy back only done about 800 miles. i do like the idea of twin turbo though. my supercharged car with forged pistons is now running 13psi with no problems. the lower compression makes all the difference . i looked at turbos for mine before my charger kit and have even considered turboing it aswell as the supercharger. it does look a bit too tight to fit the turbos in. i was thinking of fitting a larger one where the catalytic convertor is but might not get enough force to sufficiently power the turbo. coolant and oil pipes is a minor problem.

[carmadbaker]

The turbo acts as a restriction, pressure is the outcome of restricted flow. With 6 cylinders slamming exhaust gas down the mani's spooling a charger wont be a problem, especially with a smaller unit like a t25.