3 Weeks into Ownership..

[Sonic_160zr]

Ok so following on from my Introduction thread Ive managed today to give the car a bit of attention and as well as giving the car a quick clean ive made a list of the things that need doing to the car.

1. Repaint calipers.
2. Straighten the driverside exhaust.
3. Referb the alloys.
4. Repace fuel tank/ remove and treat for rust.
5. Fit Oil catch tank and detail engine bay.
6. Re-spray front bumper and bonnet.



Was just wondering about the fuel tank as it has began to rust and I know these are hard to come by. Would it be better for me to remove the existing one and get it treated or try and get hold of a new/good condition 2nd hand one and refit? What you guys recommend? Im guessing to treat it properly its a tank out job rather than treating in situ?


Also when the climate control is on it can make an almighty racket, the sound changes with the engine revs but if you turn it off and leave it a few minutes and turn it on it stops!?! Any idea what this could be?

The car is getting a check over next week from an independant MG-rover specialist so any problems can be fixed under the warrenty. (runs out in June)

Is there any ideal set up for the Catch tank? I was looking at a few on ebay and there are universal type ones and car specific ones. I was going to get a universal one and place the tank on the back of the drivers side head lamp as most others have done.


Have to say ive loved driving it around, Its been at my parents for the last 2 weeks so ive not been able to drive it until today, and it puts a smile on my face just hearing the engine idle!


Thanks in advance,



Cheers,
Matt

[big_wasa]

re the tank have you seen this post (http://www.themgzs.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=19399&highlight=fuel+tank)

[Sonic_160zr]

re the tank have you seen this post (http://www.themgzs.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=19399&highlight=fuel+tank)

Cheers for that... I had looked on there site before but couldnt find one....


Just ordered one now!.... thats one thing off the list! :D



Cheers,
Matt

[pheelay]

re the setup for the catch tank, I'm still a bit baffled by the how these are being plumbed in.

http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa436/pheelay/th_breather-tubes-pf.jpg (http://s1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa436/pheelay/breather-tubes-pf.jpg)

The tanks most commonly used seem to have one pipe in, one pipe out and are piped inline on the pipe going to the manifold (yellow). But the crank case also breathes into the air in-take (pink)? There was a post recently of someone finding oil in their manifold even with the catch tank fitted and catch tank was reletively empty.

On mine, a previous owner fitted a twin entry catch tank (this one (http://www.alloyracingfabrications.com/1-ltr-alloy-catch-tank.html)) and all 4 exits from the crank case breathe into it. There's no return to the manifold or air in-take. I emptied about quater of a litre out of it a couple months ago after about 1.5 years of use. Think there's still an ongoing debate about wheather they do any good at all!

[Sonic_160zr]

re the setup for the catch tank, I'm still a bit baffled by the how these are being plumbed in.

http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa436/pheelay/th_breather-tubes-pf.jpg (http://s1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa436/pheelay/breather-tubes-pf.jpg)

The tanks most commonly used seem to have one pipe in, one pipe out and are piped inline on the pipe going to the manifold (yellow). But the crank case also breathes into the air in-take (pink)? There was a post recently of someone finding oil in their manifold even with the catch tank fitted and catch tank was reletively empty.

On mine, a previous owner fitted a twin entry catch tank (this one (http://www.alloyracingfabrications.com/1-ltr-alloy-catch-tank.html)) and all 4 exits from the crank case breathe into it. There's no return to the manifold or air in-take. I emptied about quater of a litre out of it a couple months ago after about 1.5 years of use. Think there's still an ongoing debate about wheather they do any good at all!

Thanks for the info,

I have been doing a lot of reading up on the catch tanks and although there are a few that believe that the catch tanks doesnt help the majority have the opposite opinion. Ive seen most have fitted the the 1st one you mentioned and most have said they have found varing amounts of oil in the catch tank with some finding none, so im not 100% that in every case they are effective but that could be down to the usage of the car and fitment of the tank... I Will fit one as i cannot see it making it worse, and could help prolong the life of the car. It sounds like yours is doing a good job, might have to look into the different types of catch tanks in more detail then.





Cheers,
Matt

[caled]

Thanks for the info,

I have been doing a lot of reading up on the catch tanks and although there are a few that believe that the catch tanks doesnt help the majority have the opposite opinion. Ive seen most have fitted the the 1st one you mentioned and most have said they have found varing amounts of oil in the catch tank with some finding none, so im not 100% that in every case they are effective but that could be down to the usage of the car and fitment of the tank... I Will fit one as i cannot see it making it worse, and could help prolong the life of the car. It sounds like yours is doing a good job, might have to look into the different types of catch tanks in more detail then.


Cheers,
Matt

I wouldn't necessarily believe the 'majority opinion' on the internet... and you're assuming that the oil isn't supposed to be there to lubricate the butterfly arms et al. There was a LR technical bulletin about the internets somewhere where they state that tests of significant oil contamination of VIS motors doesn't result in premature failure.

/devils advocate. Personally, Im not decided either way.

[peterzs]

Sounds like you have been busy, all good stuff, makes me feel guilty that I havnt even given my one a wash in the last three weeks!!!!

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[talkingcars]

Personally I feel that the VIZ benifits from some oil to lubricate the butterflies, unfortunatly most engines seem to provide to much.

[Quadcam24]

catch tanks are completely unnecessary on a zs 180 imo, folks just fit them because its easy , looks bling under the bonnet and its another box to tick on your spec list.
You might as well throw 40 quid in the bin for all the good it does. My zs did half its total mileage on track lapping flat out, kevs did 120 thou miles with only a single vis motor replacement and thousands of them were on track and many trips to santa pod.
Imo catch tanks will cause more vis problems than they prevent....has anyone done 120,000 hard miles with a catch tank and had less vis problems than 1 power motor change ?

[Jay-ZS+]

Circuit boards have no need for oil, the dust from brushes of the motor mixes with the oil making a paste which aids their failure.

[talkingcars]

catch tanks are completely unnecessary on a zs 180 imo, folks just fit them because its easy , looks bling under the bonnet and its another box to tick on your spec list.
You might as well throw 40 quid in the bin for all the good it does. My zs did half its total mileage on track lapping flat out, kevs did 120 thou miles with only a single vis motor replacement and thousands of them were on track and many trips to santa pod.
Imo catch tanks will cause more vis problems than they prevent....has anyone done 120,000 hard miles with a catch tank and had less vis problems than 1 power motor change ?

I suspect that cars that are driven hard suffer less vis problems than cars that are driven gently as most of the oil gets sucked through.

What is this dust you talk of Jay, there shouldn't be any if the air filter is doing it's job and any from the bushes should also get sucked away quickly.

[Jay-ZS+]

I suspect that cars that are driven hard suffer less vis problems than cars that are driven gently as most of the oil gets sucked through.

What is this dust you talk of Jay, there shouldn't be any if the air filter is doing it's job and any from the bushes should also get sucked away quickly.

The dust from the brushes, the vis units are mostly sealed so theres no where really for the dust to go, especially if there is a thin film of oil on the inner surfaces of the unit for the dust to stick to.

[Quadcam24]

the motors are tiny , they don't make any dust to speak of, and there shouldn't be any coming in through the airfilter either. Ive never seen dust contamination in a motor or a plenum and ive took some apart.
The vis flaps need oil to lubricate their joints as they are ball and socket joints.
What happens if ball and socket joints ( the same as the flaps are operated by ) dry out, but are still constantly moving?........answer, they wear out at a much faster rate!!
Fitting a catch tank to save a vis motor is false economy, a knackered motor is not an issue, they cost 60 quid and you can change them in 10 minutes, if you knacker the actual flaps up because they are not getting lubricated its new plenum time and that's expensive!!

[Jay-ZS+]

I understand what your saying although as I see it. There is no way for dust from the atmosphere to get into the system as the air filter stop this. The oil vapours get in the motors through the small vent hole at the bottom of them. Having taken a number of failed vis units apart ive noticed a gritty paste can often be found, which I can only assume is the dust from the motors mixed with the film of oil. Having this around the circuit board cant go them any good.

Ive got a catch tank fitted and you do get a small amount of vapours still get though to the manifold. The ball joints arms in the manifold are a plastic and greased when manufactured. The unit fails due to poor tolerances and design which cause the arms to wear unevenly and even detach. there should be grease to lubricate the joints, theres no need for the oil to be there. It could be down to the oil vapour and temperature that dries out or breaks up the grease reducing the lubrication.

[Quadcam24]

oh i agree its poor design, but grease is, and can only be applied at the time of manufacture ..........realistically, how long do you expect a little dob of grease to last in such an extreme environment ?!?!?, this then, is why they need oil.
I have to grease my jcb every time i use it, all machines with moving parts need either regular grease or constant lubrication from oil.
A little dob of grease will not last thousands and thousands of miles, if plenums depended purely on grease they would be failing every thousand miles.

[daytona365]

Its all down to the fact that the design was "hurried". In the "End of the Road" book, an engineer explained that it was a cheap alternative to VVi to get make the KV6 more pwerful through the rev range. When it works the engine is ACE!!! How ever as with all british ideas at the time, it was done on the cheap. If Honda had of made it for Rover, we ZS180 owners would never be having these discussions

Catch tank or no catch tank, the KV6 engine still sounds and goes like a bat out of hell. As a parts advisor I get to see much more troublesome inlet manifold solutions, and some of them ****** the engine up so bad they dont run anymore.

So we should be glad that such a simple idea, still lets us drive our gorgeous cars.:group:

[Quadcam24]

a vvc kv6 would have been something else.
i wonder how ludicrously difficult it would be to build one. lol

[talkingcars]

a vvc kv6 would have been something else.
i wonder how ludicrously difficult it would be to build one. lol

I think you'd be looking at custom built heads for a start..........

[Jay-ZS+]

a vvc kv6 would have been something else.
i wonder how ludicrously difficult it would be to build one. lol

Timing it would be fun too! :ohmy:

[Sonic_160zr]

Right so my new fuel tank arrived this morning. (bloody quick delivery!! only ordered it on saturday afternoon.)

What would be the best way to treat the tank? I was thinking about applying something like hammerite to the tank would this be ok?



Cheers,
Matt

[Ritchy]

i was thinking hammerite for mine, but was thinking of using hammerite special metal primer first as its really tough, its like a red oxide kind of colour, then white hammerite i think:P

[Sonic_160zr]

i was thinking hammerite for mine, but was thinking of using hammerite special metal primer first as its really tough, its like a red oxide kind of colour, then white hammerite i think:P

Thats what I was thinking, Ive got a tin of black hammerite so id prob use that, stupid question but is there any parts that I shouldnt paint? like the recessed rim around the hole at the top. and do I just leave the black rubber bits on and paint around them?






Cheers,
Matt

[Ritchy]

dont paint the bit the pump goes into, id mark it off as theres a chance itll leak if it isnt a clean surface, with the filler pipes, im going to take them off, but im going mask up just to keep it all tidy