View Full Version : Drew's ZS180
been hanging around on here for a while, thought id post a few bits ive been upto on mine.
so where to start! well i bought my excellent mk2 XPG hatch in July '07 for just over £8k, with 18k miles on the clock.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/3.jpg
first things first, power run..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/RollRd5.jpg
not bad. best handling mg/rover id ever driven, pretty good power for a nasp. could always feel that dip in torque though.
Drew
MG6Turbo
22-01-12, 08:45 PM
Nice car and perfect graph.
When you fitting the itbs into it ?
G
peterzs
23-01-12, 09:49 AM
Good to see one thats been owned for a few years.
Wonder if the figures would have changed much???
:wave:
Dan1971
23-01-12, 09:53 AM
Looks nice - That a recent pic or from when you got it ? What have you been doing to it then ?
sorry to keep you hanging..
still couldnt get away from the T turbo power i used to have, needed MORE!
bought myself a Sprintex supercharger kit!
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/sprintex.jpg
Drew
fitted well in the bay, seemed to rub on the sound deadening though..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/ZS-SC1s.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/ZS-SC2s.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/ZS-SC3s.jpg
not bad power for the boost. pretty close to what sprintex said it would be..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/RollRd9.jpg
but a little dissapointed. drove very well, felt really good.
Drew
unfortunatly the car developed a bad electrical fault. was still under warrenty so removed the charger and sent it back to the dealer.
turned out to be a loose connection in the fusebox. fixed for free! :)
Drew
re-fitted the supercharger but seemed to develop a bad knocking noise
eventually sent it back to sprintex, they diagnosed it as dirt in the oil feed, blocked and ran the bearing dry. fixed and returned aug '10!
while the charger was dead i tried some of the nasp tuning..
liked the v6 but wasnt really a roar but more of a meow!
so next was to decat and fit a bmc induction...
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/MGZS180-PHS.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/RollRd2.jpg
sounded better and not bad increase for the outlay.
Drew
needed more power!!
fitted a janspeed cat-back and set of janspeed manifolds..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/ZSmanifolds-1.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/RollRd10.jpg
very good BHP/£
Drew
Dan1971
23-01-12, 07:33 PM
How's it running then ... How long/many miles on the supercharger ?
i was gona get a charger for my car, couldn't justify the huge price tag though.
Glad i made that decision looking at your graph.....your's with the charger is only about 15bhp more then mine without!
wanted to go past 200bhp, from what id read no-one had anything more than piper 270's, so bought myself a set of piper 285 cams. had them fitted as i didnt have the time. started and ran, but not very well. played with the idle a little. drove ok, didnt really make any more power! stayed like that for a while.
took the car off the road march '11 to play with it. got me a nice 220 turbo hatch to get to work and back..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/Photo0157-1.jpg
looks good, handles a lot worse than i remember.
Drew
i was gona get a charger for my car, couldn't justify the huge price tag though.
Glad i made that decision looking at your graph.....your's with the charger is only about 15bhp more then mine without!
true, on a std engine/zorst at the time though so not bad increase, 175/215.
Drew
How's it running then ... How long/many miles on the supercharger ?
only a few months and i dont do many miles.
Drew
get a move on n update this more:P
did more work on the 220 than i wanted to, didnt really have time for the zs!
going the be saving for a house this year, so end of last year i wanted to get as many parts as possible before running out of cash!
started to buy some suspension parts ive always wanted.
Hardrace spherical bearing rear trailing arm bush.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/trailing-arm.jpg
spherical bearing rear toe control.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/rear-toe.jpg
spherical bearing rear lower track control arm.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/rear-lca.jpg
spherical bearing rear upper camber adjusters.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/rear-camber.jpg
ASR rear lower chassis brace and 24mm rear arb
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/subframe-brace.jpg
Hardrace spherical bearing front lower arm.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/front-lower.jpg
Hardrace spherical bearing front upper arm.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/front-upper.jpg
Whiteline 27mm front arb.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/BHF53XZ.jpg
Superflex castor adjustable front lower bushes.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/SF1539CKSS.jpg
Gaz height adjustables.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/zs-gaz.jpg
Loads of bits!
Drew
im off to bed! do some more tomorrow.
Drew
ZS Phil
23-01-12, 08:27 PM
wow! cant wait to see all that lot fitted, looks like a great project with not a penny spared!
stamford
23-01-12, 08:31 PM
Some quality looking parts there Drew. Shudder to think the cost of them all. The upper arms look far superior to the Moto-Build ones I have seen. The sort of stuff I have on my wish list! However I already have a house, three daughters, three cats and three dogs and no money! :laugh:
I'm only too happy to still have my ZS after nearly 7 years of ownership.
Dave MGT
23-01-12, 11:08 PM
Very interesting thread!!!
Some very nice suspension parts there. Few of the bits I have already collected for mine but that rear asr arb kit I havent seen before. Yum!
a lot of items there to add to my want list, where did yousource these from drew?
bought them from the states, but were delivered direct from the factory in taiwan!
it all started off cos i bought some ohlins for a civic off ebay. needed a re-build but found a dealer nearby. annoyingly they had some small pits on the main strut and a new one couldnt be found anywhere (jap specific and stopped being made a few years back). only paid £60 so wasnt too worried. got the spherical bearing top mounts off them so got something out of it.
Drew
Good stuff, may get some at some point
Maxxed_Ross
24-01-12, 11:20 AM
I think another email wish list will be coming your way Drew lol, I need to have those suspension parts on the touring car!
no problem, can build a kv6 turbo if your interested ;)
right where did i get to...
ok so over the past few weeks ive been adding/tweeking the suspension parts to the zs. lots are direct fit, some are not!
been mainly working on the rear, got some new std discs, longer studs, wheel spacers (have them on the front for the brembodge), goodridge braided hoses..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/Photo0225.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/Photo0226.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/Photo0228.jpg
dissapointingly, no brackets on the rear brake hoses like the originals. had to make some L shape brackets and got hold of some P clips, fitted very well in the end.
Gaz bolt up well (not in that pic for the eagle eyed) fit well but seemed to have a lot of space above the spring that i think will need a helper to keep inplace (mot fail from what i remember). but it could also be cos its decked atm, cant really get my finger between wheel/arch atm. pics when im home in the daylight!
ASR lower brace is too long to fit directly. i cut 10mm out of the middle of the brace and welded it back together. the fitting that come with it dont fit either so modding required. but bolts up well now and feels like it will work.
24mm rear arb is prolly a touch long too but the links go vertical when its on the ground which is what you need.
didnt want to drill any holes in the rear lower arms to fit the abs wires so cable tie ftw atm.
cheers
Drew
seen a few gearlinkage mods that use a steering uj to replace the original link. i liked the idea but not the finish. so i found a nicer uj on the net..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/gear.jpg
welded on, rubber boot for protection (which i filled with grease before fitting to the car).
perfect fit on the gearbox. got myself a short shift gearstick at the same time, all fits on, but tbh the 2 linkages (stabiliser and selector) are a bit too close for my liking.
Drew
as id replaced a lot of suspension bushes i though id look at what else could be replaced. i see the stabiliser bushes were very loose fitting and quite rubbish when looked at them properly.
found some bushes on the net that looked close to what i had, fitted pretty well..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/stabilisers.jpg
so upper large and small bushes in the stabilers fitted very well. lower rear stabiliser large bush fts too.
the small bush in the sump didnt, so i made an acetal bush to fit in there instead.
Drew
BUCKYDEVIL
24-01-12, 07:34 PM
Im liking this thread, Great work.
could have seen on another thread but the charger rubbed on the bonnet sound deadening. instead of just taking the stuff off i decided it would be better to lower the engine a little. small benefits like lower centre of gravity could be taken from that but in the real world i dont think happened.
after looking at the mounts i see its quite easy to lower the engine as the v6 hangs from its mounts, so i made some spacers to go between them and bought some longer bolts.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/Photo-0006.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/Photo-00007.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/Photo-0014.jpg
worked well, no more rubbing.
Drew
while the charger was away i started looking for other options. throttle bodies sounded like a good possibility on a mildly tuned engine. asking around found some Triumph 955 TB's with similar port spacing to the kv6 (thanks Dave 'GTMSpyder')
ordered 2 sets from ebay usa..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/TB1.jpg
as i knew the charger fitted under the bonnet i could take some measurements and see what i could get away with..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/sc1.jpg
although they are quite small i decided i didn't need any of the extra fittings the bike had, so machined them off..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/TB3.jpg
so trying to make the TB's fit onto the std manifolds i machined a block up to suit..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/TB5.jpg
fits ok on my spare engine..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/TB6.jpg
the first idea of fitting to the engine..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/TB7.jpg
I'm think of moving them round a bit but in essence thats where they will be.
Drew
got myself a DTA S80. will be wiring it in soon as im now pretty much finished with the suspension and other extra's.
never really liked the idea of the piggyback on the charger so wanted to change that for full control aftermarket ecu.
while the charger was at sprintex i asked if they had a drawing of the pulley so i could make a smaller one for a little more boost. when i got the charger back they had sent another pulley in the box! bonus.
hopefully see 5/6psi and better fuel/ignition control with the dta on there.
Drew
stamford
24-01-12, 07:54 PM
That was the reason I was after a dummy engine so I could mock up something. I miss being 'hands on' but have access to machine shops and as I use 3D software all day I can sneak the odd home project in ;)
Enjoying the thread Drew, projects that I find interesting and would do myself if I had the money and space. Used to do alot of this years ago when I had a workshop and machine tools.
started looking at why the cams didnt give me any more power, got my dti's out, pipers std timing marks (although they told me they were pretty accurate) were infact miles out.
as piper dont have any verniers and were not interested in making some more, i modded a set of std pulley into verniers. give me about 8dgr movement, was enough for what i needed.
set about timing them into the correct figures at tdc. couldnt actually get pipers recommended figures of 2.23in, 1.98exh at tdc as the pistons were touching the valves.
called piper to see if they could give me some other timing figures....less than helpful tbh.
ended up with 2.0in, 1.8exh. hopefully give me the extra i was looking for.
Drew
theboynoz
24-01-12, 08:01 PM
Awesome! If only i had the money.....
Think i will just stick to replacing the suspension parts with OEM stuff! :(
That was the reason I was after a dummy engine so I could mock up something. I miss being 'hands on' but have access to machine shops and as I use 3D software all day I can sneak the odd home project in ;)
Enjoying the thread Drew, projects that I find interesting and would do myself if I had the money and space. Used to do alot of this years ago when I had a workshop and machine tools.
yeah thats the engine from the bubble! has come in handy for a lot of measurements, lots of looking at it! the g/f thinks im mental :blink:
still got more for tomorrow!
Drew
Quadcam24
24-01-12, 08:12 PM
top thread . top work.
Supercharged_Z
24-01-12, 08:40 PM
indeed this is some top modifications you are doing there its all go
cams, charger, throttle bodys and major chassis devolpment.
May speak with you ref some bits
Quadcam24
24-01-12, 09:09 PM
one thing i wanted to do was uprate the rarb, standard one is quite weak imo when it comes to track, and the standard car is deffinitely biased towards understeer.
My car still leaned a lot under high load, having said that the rear was always planted unless i provoked it, and i liked the confidence that gave me knowing it would never suddenly snap out, also feeling it move around lets you know easily what the cars doing.
It was top of my to do list though to try to make the car more neutral on the limit, as it was still understeer first and that just kills lap times.
What is your goal drew, where is it going ?, is it going to be a track car or a wolf in sheeps clothing road car ?....if you can call a mk2 bodykit sheeps clothing, lmao!
thank you. ive been thinking/collecting/doing! for a few years just getting time to actually fit and finish takes me longer than i would want.
think ill be fitting and running the TB's first, then the charger on after. means i can go back easily to the TB's when/if i sell the charger.
rear arb is a good mod, takes away the long chassis brackets that on the 220's seem to fail. maybe just age/wear that does it so could be hitting the zs's soon.
Drew
after getting started with the rest of the bolt on mods i was looking for the next level of tuning.
headwork is an option, if i sell the charger i hope to have enough to pay for it!
"there aint no replacement for displacement"
looked into the Kia sedona hoping to find some parts that i could use but didnt really find anything of use, so i thought id do it myself.
KV6 is just a pair of 3 cylinder K4's. so i got myself some 82mm liners..
82's on the left..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/82-liners.jpg
82's on the right..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/82-liners3.jpg
set about fitting them to the v6 block..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/KV6-block.jpg
with those and a std crank it would give me 2624cc (up 127cc) not bad increase, the K4's seem to do well on +100.
but i thought i could do better?! so i stroked the crank to 87.8mm (from 82.8)
i dont have a pic, it still looks like a std crank :blink:
87.8 crank and 82 bore gives me 2782cc :ohmy:
needed to fill the rest of the parts in, so got myself some forged rods..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/KV6-rods.jpg
and some high comp forged pistons..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/KV6-pistons.jpg
sold my lightweight steel flywheel to get another lightwheight steel flywheel!!
the new one has 220 turbo clutch fittings (the clutch cover dowels are smaller and in slightly different place.) and im going to get myself a kevlar clutch to go with it.
im making an aluminium bottom pully to replace the steel one.
with that ill be ready to balance it all and start building the bottom end up :)
Drew
very nice! this is top work drew!
andys1981
25-01-12, 08:30 PM
getting hooked on this project buddy,you certainly know your stuff,and know the best gear to buy aswell,looking forward to seeing more updates,excellent work drew
Quadcam24
25-01-12, 08:53 PM
2.8 v6 ....yummy......on throttle bodies and 285's, mouth watering build right here. Cannot wait to see this, the 2.8 litre kv6 would be a real 220 bhp with just the basic breathing mods.
That would just transform the zs ....can you build me a 2.8 kv6 please ?
were is the "we are not worthy " smiley when you need it :laugh:
cheers for the comments.
not much to update today, will be looking at making some clips for the brake lines on the gaz shocks and some new bits for the TB's.
pics of the front end tomorrow.
Drew
big_wasa
26-01-12, 08:14 PM
I love good engineering......... Any chance of a pic of the smaller pulley for the charger ?
Jay-ZS+
26-01-12, 09:08 PM
Just seen this, what an awesome project. Real bespoke engineering :thumbsup:
What sort of compression do you hope to be running at, also any idea of rpm limit?
Reckon you could see pretty decent numbers. Im guessing 240bhp and 255lb/ft. Without the throttle bodies or supercharger.
cheers Jay.
with the 2.8? ill be iro 12.3:1 and as im on hydraulic tappets ill be limited to 7.5k rpm.
pic of the supercharger pulleys..
new on the left (59mm), old on the right (62mm)
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/Photo0235.jpg
didnt get much done today, got some rough drawings done of some TB fittings, hopefully have them finished in a couple weeks. will order some pipes etc off the net. once i got those i can start looking at an airbox / final positioning.
did manage to get a couple pics of the car as it is now..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/Photo0229.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/Photo0230.jpg
way too low atm, can only just get my finger between tyre and arch. may think about removing the arch liners?!
cheers
Drew
Im guessing 240bhp and 255lb/ft. Without the throttle bodies or supercharger.
i dont think ill see 255lb, im hoping to pull 300nm = 220lb/ft.
cheers
Drew
big_wasa
27-01-12, 08:17 PM
Thanks for the pic of the pulley.
Quadcam24
27-01-12, 08:23 PM
Just seen this, what an awesome project. Real bespoke engineering :thumbsup:
What sort of compression do you hope to be running at, also any idea of rpm limit?
Reckon you could see pretty decent numbers. Im guessing 240bhp and 255lb/ft. Without the throttle bodies or supercharger.
from just a 12 percent increase in capacity ?!?!?!
naah ...doubt it imo.
how much extra boost will the pulley give you drew?
Jay-ZS+
27-01-12, 09:14 PM
Well I calculated that using the same bmep and specific power as mine with the 270 cams. Working backwards to find power and torque, not the most accurate I know but better than picking numbers out of thin air ;)
id be expecting 5/6psi and 10/20bhp with the smaller pulley.
Drew
Quadcam24
28-01-12, 05:43 AM
Well I calculated that using the same bmep and specific power as mine with the 270 cams. Working backwards to find power and torque, not the most accurate I know but better than picking numbers out of thin air ;)
well yes, but usually you get roughly the same percentage power gain as you have increased the cubic capacity by, so if you increase cc by 12 percent ,you will gain roughly 12 percent power and torque ....which is approx 20 bhp and 20ft lb torque.
not a bad gain that for a bit littler pulley drew, i think that's what garymgzs180 on here did, went for more boost from littler pulley and his is making good power.
raised the suspension a little, still need to do a bit more on the front. got some pics of the front arb and fittings..
Whiteline 27mm front arb..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/Photo0236.jpg
made myself a front link up..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/Photo0237.jpg
took a pic of the roll centre adjusters..
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/Photo0240.jpg
not a lot of space left with the brembodge on there. might need a little tweeking.
Drew
petet16
28-01-12, 03:51 PM
I used reduced diameter Nyloc nuts on the bottom joint cos they touched the disc otherwise.
Some good work going on there btw.
Supercharged_Z
28-01-12, 06:15 PM
have you got your front camber arms on? that may help? mine dosnt need smaller castle nuts and thats fairly low.
i do but havnt set the camber yet. more camber may help me, but i have roll centre adjusters that may be making it a little worse.
its still a little low so should get a few mm there.
oh well, one mod on, need another mod for it to fit, etc etc.
cheers
Drew
ordered a few bits for the TB's, measured up the charger parts again, think i have the space for what im planning ;)
Drew
Quadcam24
30-01-12, 06:33 PM
you could always go for the, sticking out of the bonnet look ,lol
not really my thing!
best start the re-wire at the w/end. think ill go battery to boot too.
Drew
sneak peak....
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/Roverdose/Photo0242.jpg
thats roughly what I'm planning!
cheers
Drew
talkingcars
31-01-12, 08:35 PM
not really my thing!
best start the re-wire at the w/end. think ill go battery to boot too.
Drew
Done that, gave me enough room to site my BMC CDA away from the battery and not acting as a heat sink, inlet temps are only 5' over ambiant when driving.
Jay-ZS+
31-01-12, 08:42 PM
sneak peak....
thats roughly what I'm planning!
cheers
Drew
Did you calculated the runner length for the throttle bodies? If so what sort of rev range did you tune them for?
Cant wait to see this come together
Quadcam24
31-01-12, 09:22 PM
looking excellent drew.
I would imagine runner length is mostly determined by space rather than a desire for a specific power at certain rpm's.
Is there a general rule of thumb for runner lengths, is it shorter or longer for power band higher or lower in the rev range ?
Jay-ZS+
31-01-12, 09:45 PM
Is there a general rule of thumb for runner lengths, is it shorter or longer for power band higher or lower in the rev range ?
Not really its based on the duration of the inlet stroke and the speed of the crank. Fairly easy with ITB like this rather than the plenum type as you only have to consider a single cylinder for each runner and not take into account resonant frequencies of other cylinders.
It will be mostly determined by space but even so if you can match them to a desired frequency it will help. Drew seems good with the numbers so just wondered out of intrest as its something Im modelling at the moment.
yes and no, supposedly you wont get the extra boost you would with a plenum as the sound wave wont bounce back off anywhere, that said i tuned them to 6700/7000 depending on what trumpet i get / can fit in the space left over.
quite long though yeah and no taper through the middle pipework, but ill see how it goes.
Drew
well after a bit more reading i think im going in the right direction..
http://www.emeraldm3d.com/articles/emr-adj-length-intake.html#
Drew
Jay-ZS+
05-02-12, 08:50 PM
Quite a good article there, If you fancy any more reading Ive got some PDFs that you may find useful. Id recommend "Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals" by John Heywood. The maths soon gets pretty intense by there is some great info in there.
If only you could get variable trumpets that could self adjust to match the engine speed and living mapping to suit!!
Im currently trying modelling a sxv 550 engine on excel to experiment with cam profiles, runner length and plenum configurations and to say its messing with my head is an understatement!
yeah id love them, and odly i like maths!
cheers
Drew
Jay-ZS+
08-02-12, 11:00 AM
yeah id love them, and odly i like maths!
cheers
Drew
Let me know your email and Ill send them over, quite a bit is regarding plenum design although sure some of the inlet runner bits will be of interest.
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