View Full Version : Oh dear - "The ring" claims our ZS !
Dan1971
10-03-12, 08:08 PM
Well ... Sad news I'm afraid - :cry:
Just got this text from my mate - " Your investment is dead ! spun 3 times into the barrier and been charged 1200 euros ! We'll give you your money back when we get back".
Rang him to make sure he was OK and they are ....
They got there no problem - the car ran really well, and they were about 4 minutes into their first and only lap when they spun it and went into the wall sideways. Panel damage mostly, but still running OK. They've patched her back together with cable ties and gaffer tape and will be back tomorrow.
Oh well ... At least they're OK, but not the sort of photos I wanted to be putting up following her outing !
peterzs
10-03-12, 08:16 PM
Sorry to hear this Dan.
One track I wouldnt venture out on.
I've gone round Brands, Silverstone, Thruxton and Goodwood but looking at youtube and the Ring vids wouldnt even do that as a passenger.
Good thing is they managed to get the car going and it looked after them.
Repair or buy another one, and try again????
mattie007
10-03-12, 08:28 PM
Thats a shame, hope it can be fixed.
Was looking at taking the bike round the 'Ring when I visit family in Holland next year, but it looks an unforgiving place!
Dan1971
10-03-12, 08:31 PM
We'll see what the score is when it comes back mate. When I spoke to them - the prognosis wasn't good body-wise, but, hey, we didn't buy it for it's looks. If I fancy getting a few panels - maybe - if not, then we may get it to another few track days in the UK or sadly, it may end up a breaker on here ... Just have to see really.
Shame though - I didn't even get to drive it !
The thing about it was that they had it down as one of their - I'm going to do - type things and now they've done it. Personally, the ring isn't like that for me. Like you - I'm happy doing half an hour at Brands and then maybe what the Scots boys did this afternoon.
Thinking about it - It may be that I take it off them as it stands - rather than get my investment back. We'll see.
andys1981
10-03-12, 08:34 PM
aw unbeleavable mate,not good news,but at least your buddies are ok,and only panel damage,could have been a lot worse,its a brutal track
big_wasa
10-03-12, 08:39 PM
Them sort of cost's put me of the ring.
I could except the loss of the car but another grand on top :wacko:
Vulture time.
I want a cheap engine for a project :hump:
Dan1971
10-03-12, 08:44 PM
...
Vulture time.
I want a cheap engine for a project :hump:
31 minutes ... that should be a record !
Ooft that's not good.at least everyone is okay best sticking to sensible circuits now then.
stamford
10-03-12, 10:03 PM
oh ****! when I said 'if' it comes back I was saying that with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek! :look:
Funny how these things 'Ring' true ;)
At least they are okay, it could have been worse. hence why I am not that bothered about going there purely because it is such an unforgiving place.
zsserbia
11-03-12, 12:17 AM
Gutted for you man. As said, at least they are ok. I can imagine how challenging this track may be, it was the only one getting on my nerves in video games.
You know I've been prepared with a track car, only for things to go horribly wrong before getting to drive it! I feel your pain.
As everyone says, it held together and kept the occupants safe so thats the main thing.
May never enter the 'ring though!
Dan1971
11-03-12, 08:26 AM
Oh dear ....
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii58/danlaualex/ZSOuch.jpg
Boot Hill Bandit
11-03-12, 08:37 AM
that is a bin job by the looks of it. has the hatch twisted and pushed up the roof too so there is a crease across it??? looks heavy.
Dan1971
11-03-12, 08:40 AM
that is a bin job by the looks of it. has the hatch twisted and pushed up the roof too so there is a crease across it??? looks heavy.
Not sure mate to be honest about the roof - but he tells me that it won't open ...
Wishfull thinking but maybe, boot, bumper and a pull on the rear quarter to straighten and she'll be good enough for a few more laps over here. Gutted about the exhaust though - it was awesome....
MG6Turbo
11-03-12, 08:50 AM
Don't see what all the fuss is.
Motorsport is dangerous. It's plastered everywhere at British tracks. Doesn't matter what track you go to.
The damage isn't that bad. Parts are so cheap now you will get a bumper and hatch in the right colour for less than a ton. The exhaust could be made to go again.
The rear quarter is the only panel that would require a body shops attention.
I reckon with the bits it could be sorted for £300 or break it and buy another.
No loss either way.
Doing trackdays is a risk with any car.
Airfield trackdays are about the safest place to do a trackday. Race tracks are always a risk.
Do you get the same buzz at an airfield ? Err no.
But at least the only thing you can hit is either another car or a cone !
Or have mechanical failures.
G
BUCKYDEVIL
11-03-12, 09:29 AM
Don't think that looks too bad Dan, might not look pretty when patched up but should still do the job..
Quadcam24
11-03-12, 09:29 AM
very first lap....why, what caused the accident?
sorry but this is why i would never go halves on a car, yes you may get your money back but what about all the hours and
excitement thats now lost.
How can anyone have a genuine excuse for crashing on the first lap after 4 minutes, unless someone hit him and knocked him off ,
or he had a mechanical failure of some sort, if not then im afraid i would be fuming.
Im sorry but what george said is right, it is dangerous and you have to accept that, but any driver has to respect the track
(especially the ring when your a noob, the ring hasnt gained its rep for nothing !! ), the conditions, your skill and experience etc.
I have done iro 40 trackdays and never had a shunt and that includes many new tracks, rain soaked tracks, even slick tyres on a
wet track and i don't say that to boast, im not the quickest driver by far but what i can do is read the conditions and know mine
and the cars limits...and anyone who goes on track, especially in a car part owned by some'one else, has a responsibility to do the
same.
My apologies if this post makes me unpopular but its just unacceptable.:p
Build your own car mate and drive it yourself.
p.s do you like my george style, gap between every line, post ,lol :hooray:
big_wasa
11-03-12, 09:35 AM
31 minutes ... that should be a record !
Sorry was that a bit insensitive of me :bow:
As long as the suspension didnt get bent it could live again.
What gets me is where do they get the 1200 euro to drag it of the track.
MG6Turbo
11-03-12, 09:37 AM
DAVE you try using an I phone whilst being driven by Jack Goff !
talkingcars
11-03-12, 09:48 AM
Frustrating but doesn't look too bad.
As George said - it doesn't look so bad, it's a track car and not a show car so repair it - pull the wing, replace the hatch and fibre glass the bumper, bit of rattle can to give some colour, repair the exhaust and try again
but
this time try a local track.
And if the car drives - why did they have to pay the E1200?
Dan1971
11-03-12, 09:49 AM
very first lap....why, what caused the accident?
sorry but this is why i would never go halves on a car, yes you may get your money back but what about all the hours and
excitement thats now lost.
How can anyone have a genuine excuse for crashing on the first lap after 4 minutes, unless someone hit him and knocked him off ,
or he had a mechanical failure of some sort, if not then im afraid i would be fuming.
Im sorry but what george said is right, it is dangerous and you have to accept that, but any driver has to respect the track
(especially the ring when your a noob, the ring hasnt gained its rep for nothing !! ), the conditions, your skill and experience etc.
I have done iro 40 trackdays and never had a shunt and that includes many new tracks, rain soaked tracks, even slick tyres on a
wet track and i don't say that to boast, im not the quickest driver by far but what i can do is read the conditions and know mine
and the cars limits...and anyone who goes on track, especially in a car part owned by some'one else, has a responsibility to do the
same.
My apologies if this post makes me unpopular but its just unacceptable.:p
Build your own car mate and drive it yourself.
p.s do you like my george style, gap between every line, post ,lol :hooray:
Calm down mate - Blah blah - yep you may have the time on a track - we don't. He may have pushed it too far to start with - so what -
No-one's got the hump - certainly not me - and we are 4 guys £200 each in total - £800 - we could break it for nearly that and get £100+ back on the road tax alone ! We'd written the investment off anyway just incase something like this happened. It's not some £10K totally sorted track car with hours of time spent in the garage. It was a bargain to buy, we spent £30 on getting it through the MOT to get it around and that's it.
The lads wanted to go to the ring - they went and lost it - no biggee ....
G - I think you're right - I don't think it'll be a lot to get straight again and at the end of the day - it might not look pretty, but it'll do exactly what we wanted it to do - get out and have some fun.
talkingcars
11-03-12, 09:51 AM
Second thoughts - you may need to chop some of the wing off and weld anothr in BUT it doesn't need to be tidy, just functional.
Dan1971
11-03-12, 09:57 AM
..... BUT it doesn't need to be tidy, just functional.
Exactly !
No good mate but least everyone was ok and the car was still driveable as well as being possibly repairable/breakable:)
Frustrating but doesn't look too bad.
As George said - it doesn't look so bad, it's a track car and not a show car so repair it - pull the wing, replace the hatch and fibre glass the bumper, bit of rattle can to give some colour, repair the exhaust and try again
but
this time try a local track.
And if the car drives - why did they have to pay the E1200?
I think it would be possibly be for damage to the track, call out for crash crews or something similiar maybe?? :)
Dan1971
11-03-12, 10:04 AM
The 1200 was for damage to the armco apparently - clearing up the mess and towing them off.
Quadcam24
11-03-12, 10:13 AM
Calm down mate - Blah blah - yep you may have the time on a track - we don't. He may have pushed it too far to start with - so what -
No-one's got the hump - certainly not me - and we are 4 guys £200 each in total - £800 - we could break it for nearly that and get £100+ back on the road tax alone ! We'd written the investment off anyway just incase something like this happened. It's not some £10K totally sorted track car with hours of time spent in the garage. It was a bargain to buy, we spent £30 on getting it through the MOT to get it around and that's it.
The lads wanted to go to the ring - they went and lost it - no biggee ....
G - I think you're right - I don't think it'll be a lot to get straight again and at the end of the day - it might not look pretty, but it'll do exactly what we wanted it to do - get out and have some fun.
sorry if that seemed harsh, and its good your not bothered but really the main point im making is that anyone who goes on track has a responsibility to do so safely. Ok your not bothered and every one is safe so thats good, but what if, in their reckless moment they had spun into another car, that was worth a lot of money, or worse, caused an accident that injured someone.
peterzs
11-03-12, 10:17 AM
Reckon half an hour with a lump hammer, new o/s/r light unit, take it to Powerflow to sort the exhaust. Might need a bit of a pull on the o/s/r quarter, but I'm sure you have a few big trees and a bit of chain laying about.
Weld down the rear hatch, added body stiffness and you are there.
Sorted track car, look on the Ring as a shake down session!!!!
;););)
Dan1971
11-03-12, 10:19 AM
sorry if that seemed harsh, and its good your not bothered but really the main point im making is that anyone who goes on track has a responsibility to do so safely. Ok your not bothered and every one is safe so thats good, but what if, in their reckless moment they had spun into another car, that was worth a lot of money, or worse, caused an accident that injured someone.
Then that would've been a terrible shame and they would be even more out of pocket.
Also - the other car's driver/owner would be - as you point out - well aware of the dangers and risks of taking a car on the track.
Dan1971
11-03-12, 10:23 AM
Reckon half an hour with a lump hammer, new o/s/r light unit, take it to Powerflow to sort the exhaust. Might need a bit of a pull on the o/s/r quarter, but I'm sure you have a few big trees and a bit of chain laying about.
Weld down the rear hatch, added body stiffness and you are there.
Sorted track car, look on the Ring as a shake down session!!!!
;););)
I reckon you're right. Not sure about welding the boot shut though - we need to get it around and that might not be legal - not sure though - traffic never was my strong point !
Anyway - lets just wait and see what the prognosis is when they get back and get it looked at on the ramps. If they manage to drive it back and we're happy with the mechanicals, we can have a look at the bodywork issues and get them sorted for pennies. It'll be cheaper for them to sort it, than reimburse us with the investment so that's a positive.
And - One of the group is - yes my good friends - a garage owner/mechanic .... ;) Sure we'll sort something out.
peterzs
11-03-12, 10:37 AM
Good planning there then!!!!
Dan1971
11-03-12, 12:10 PM
New info this morning - appears terminal.
Simply the car will be broken. It's crabbing and has more damage to the front as well as the image to the rear. Also the guys have a credit card bill to clear. Oh well.
So the 31 minute post about the engine will get a reply - pm'd ....
Thread pending when we see what there is to sell on.....
stamford
11-03-12, 01:17 PM
Tis a shame Dan, lesson learned, albeit an expensive one and onto another ZS? Was this their first track outing? If so not a very bright idea but then hindsight is a wonderful thing as they say.
Dan1971
11-03-12, 01:42 PM
Tis a shame Dan, lesson learned, albeit an expensive one and onto another ZS? Was this their first track outing? If so not a very bright idea but then hindsight is a wonderful thing as they say.
Not sure mate to be honest.
The thing is this was never meant to be a track car in the same way as smokeys. This was supposed to be a car for us to jump into and drive to a track - have some fun in it - then drive it home. I was happy to lump in £200, but wouldn't be too keen on throwing a lot more into what would be a 3-4 time a year venture.
Not sure about "Not a very bright idea" to be honest. the driver is in his 40s as we all are and without speaking to him as yet, I'm not sure what the circumstances were of him going off, but, clearly it was too much for him at the time - but this was all about the road trip. We all know he should've gone a bit slower and that would have lead to a few more days and got more out of what really was a decent car, but it's not worked out that way and I'm sure he's regretting it now.
daytona365
11-03-12, 02:18 PM
Just what I DONT want to see or read, as Im going round Brands this wednesday lol.........
peterzs
11-03-12, 03:03 PM
You just have to go to youtube, ring crashes, to see what a killer circuit it is.
The cars seem to be on the right line and just break away and the armco isnt very forgiving.
Reading one of the comments, they were saying if you go into one of the bends a bit fast you have to keep your foot down. Lift off and your off!!!
Nobrainer
11-03-12, 03:40 PM
Don't be gutted about the car just get another. The guys who went should be more gutted about going all that way and not getting a drive!
Sorry to hear about the car but glad everyone is ok
I suppose you could always take up golf...:-D:-D:-D
stamford
11-03-12, 08:33 PM
Not sure mate to be honest.
The thing is this was never meant to be a track car in the same way as smokeys. This was supposed to be a car for us to jump into and drive to a track - have some fun in it - then drive it home. I was happy to lump in £200, but wouldn't be too keen on throwing a lot more into what would be a 3-4 time a year venture.
Not sure about "Not a very bright idea" to be honest. the driver is in his 40s as we all are and without speaking to him as yet, I'm not sure what the circumstances were of him going off, but, clearly it was too much for him at the time - but this was all about the road trip. We all know he should've gone a bit slower and that would have lead to a few more days and got more out of what really was a decent car, but it's not worked out that way and I'm sure he's regretting it now.
The comment was only meant as if a first timer then the 'Ring' is not the best place to go as a track virgin. Doesn't matter how old you are and how competent you are on the road, when you enter a track with other fantastic cars around you the red mist decends and all the right things to do go out of the window.
As Pete has said plenty of videos where drivers have got onto the track and lost it purely because they got carried away in the moment.
Don't let this put you off, a hard lesson learned and next time all will be that much wiser because of it ;) Christ I've ended up in the bank after going too fast into a corner on a lap just because I had to get past someone!
Nobrainer
11-03-12, 09:03 PM
Sorry to hear about the car but glad everyone is ok
I suppose you could always take up golf...:-D:-D:-D
No way. Golf is DANGEROUS!
sneekyparrot
12-03-12, 06:08 AM
Think I will avoid that place until I hav some
Major experience under my belt.
I am quite confident on a bike but don't fancy it on one of those either lol!
Do you mean they charge u to use the track and then charge u if u come off?
P.
Do you mean they charge u to use the track and then charge u if u come off?
P.
yes they have a set amount per meter of armco...was bout 100e per meter i think, mightve been more...also u have the recovery charge on there too...remember when rob took his bmw over there..
stamford
12-03-12, 07:16 AM
I would love to do it, but I'm not one of those drivers who would hold back and just do for 'fun' and take in the scenary. Therefore I would push it too much and because I do not know the track I fear I may become another statistic! With it being so long how many times would it take to get to know it? Unless you lived on it probably never! The intimidating part is being overtaken left, right and centre by seasoned drivers who know it well and you think you are getting in everyones way. Perhaps I need a 2 week holiday and live on it! :hmmm: a business trip................
Nobrainer
12-03-12, 08:13 AM
I would love to do it, but I'm not one of those drivers who would hold back and just do for 'fun' and take in the scenary. Therefore I would push it too much and because I do not know the track I fear I may become another statistic! With it being so long how many times would it take to get to know it? Unless you lived on it probably never! The intimidating part is being overtaken left, right and centre by seasoned drivers who know it well and you think you are getting in everyones way. Perhaps I need a 2 week holiday and live on it! :hmmm: a business trip................
I quite fancy it at some point. Won't get chance this year but maybe we could arrange a site trip between the ZS's, BRM's and ZT'S?
stamford
12-03-12, 08:58 AM
The devil inside me is telling me to take the Land Rover and a trailer! :laugh:
Thats a gutter dan, glad they where okay, could always take my yellow zed=p
zsserbia
12-03-12, 10:19 AM
I would love to do it, but I'm not one of those drivers who would hold back and just do for 'fun' and take in the scenary. Therefore I would push it too much and because I do not know the track I fear I may become another statistic! With it being so long how many times would it take to get to know it? Unless you lived on it probably never! The intimidating part is being overtaken left, right and centre by seasoned drivers who know it well and you think you are getting in everyones way. Perhaps I need a 2 week holiday and live on it! :hmmm: a business trip................
There are 73 corners I'm afraid. Here's an honest article what it really takes to be a decent driver there:
http://www.seight.com/ring-sims.html
Years ago I was very intrigued with this circuit, playing GT4 on my PS2. Mostly I used Audi R10 tdi (cough, diesel) race car to speed up the reflexes before entering championships in slower motors. You're right, it is virtually impossible to memorize the order of bends, it would take 100's of laps. For me it was mostly - see the section of bends on HUD and apexes will come subconsciously.
In reality, non-experienced driver would have to bring a trained co-driver with a map, imho, in order to relieve a bit of stress and actually enjoy the ride...
Considering the amount of lives it had claimed over the years, let alone daily accidents with non-fatal outcome, I would at least get mentally prepared/take a good simulation before taking a lap over there...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iboRgiNdFFg
petet16
12-03-12, 10:41 AM
I'm thinking a trip round the 'ring with Hans Stuck would be good, stick with with it for the first 1:30 till he turns left onto the old ring.
Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSi_nRSj5jM
Sorry about the zs, but at least the only injury was to someones pride.
petet16
12-03-12, 10:42 AM
He doesn't lift for much:bow:
stamford
12-03-12, 10:55 AM
Awesome, no other word can describe him.
zsserbia
12-03-12, 11:04 AM
He must be from another planet, no he's not the Stig, he's the Stig's German cousin!
peterzs
12-03-12, 01:23 PM
Cor, come out of that breathless, someone should remind you to breath.
Fancy seeing him coming up in the mirror, certainly knows the track, awesome!!!!!!
:bow::bow::bow::thumbsup::thumbsup:
mattie007
12-03-12, 05:47 PM
Someone I know crashed his bike at the 'ring. Cost around £2500 which is for armco, recovery and the length of time the track is closed/yellow flagged!
Dan1971
12-03-12, 06:52 PM
Well --
Turns out the guy driving had been round 40 odd times .... the difference being - on a motorbike.
They were going nice and steady and the guy I work with - passenger - says "hang on - I'd lose a bit of speed here" - the driver says - "Nah it's flat out this one, you can straight line it". Well on a bike maybe - but not in a car - clipped some kerb et voila - 3x360 spins and stopped dead into the armco.
Bill was for the armco only but it was 3 bits that they claimed they would have to replace. Even though they were already dented all over - rip off - big time. Quite simple though - "You pay or police come". They didn't think much of their chances, so out came the credit card.
Anyhow - that's, that and the breaking thread is next.
Sorry to hear this happened...
A friend of mine who used to go about once a year has watched his mate - equally experienced spin on a number of occasions by being a faction of a second too early on the throttle or too late on the barkes.
Luckily for him - it was always in palces with a little bit or run off so they avoided the barriers.
It is the one major thing that worries me about the ring is that it is *very* expensive if you have an accident....
glad that they took advantage to go at least - it may well be closed to the public soon :(
readie86
14-03-12, 01:23 PM
what corner was it out of curiosity? rear end looks a bit mangled but nothing that cant be sorted
haGGard
14-03-12, 07:33 PM
Oh my god, such a shame to see my old car looking like that. Glad no one got hurt though, thats the main thing. All i know is its very expensive to crash at the ring. A mate crashed his Mazda 3 MPS a coulple of years back. The bill was eye watering.
Dave MGT
14-03-12, 08:15 PM
Well --
Turns out the guy driving had been round 40 odd times .... the difference being - on a motorbike.
They were going nice and steady and the guy I work with - passenger - says "hang on - I'd lose a bit of speed here" - the driver says - "Nah it's flat out this one, you can straight line it". Well on a bike maybe - but not in a car - clipped some kerb et voila - 3x360 spins and stopped dead into the armco.
Bill was for the armco only but it was 3 bits that they claimed they would have to replace. Even though they were already dented all over - rip off - big time. Quite simple though - "You pay or police come". They didn't think much of their chances, so out came the credit card.
Anyhow - that's, that and the breaking thread is next.
Real shame!! must be gutting!
But I have to say, thats by no way a exscuse on his behalf!!
Sounds massivley irresponcible to have a big accident like this on the 1st lap when hes never driven round in a car or that car!!! Who goes flatout 1st lap on a trackday?:crazy: especially the Ring!
Could have been a lot worse!
Its all a risk at the end of the day. BUT... you have to be sensible!!
Good luck with the repairs. It doesnt look to bad as already said.
Dan1971
14-03-12, 09:01 PM
Real shame!! must be gutting!
But I have to say, thats by no way a exscuse on his behalf!!
Sounds massivley irresponcible to have a big accident like this on the 1st lap when hes never driven round in a car or that car!!! Who goes flatout 1st lap on a trackday?:crazy: especially the Ring!
Could have been a lot worse!
Its all a risk at the end of the day. BUT... you have to be sensible!!
Good luck with the repairs. It doesnt look to bad as already said.
He went flat out where he thought he could. Simple really - but he won't make that mistake again.
Car's now being broken up though which is a shame.
readie86
14-03-12, 10:55 PM
shame im guessing the damage is worse than it looks?
Dan1971
15-03-12, 08:18 AM
shame im guessing the damage is worse than it looks?
Yep - there's a lot more panel damage than the single photo shows as it went into the barrier backwards and then straightened so there's some to the side and front too ....
Shame - but there we go.
[QUOTE=Dan1971;243006]He went flat out where he thought he could. Simple really - but he won't make that mistake again.QUOTE]
Well how else do you learn? This sort of thing could happen to anyone on any track, anywhere! How many people spin in on paddock hill bend at brands??!! Ok all be it there is alot more run off compared to the ring but still all the same.
Please dont be put off by going to the ring! its such an amazing experience! the people out there are friendly, with alot of like minded people around to have some good banter with.
My advice.....Take one lap as a "sighting lap" first to feel for the compresion, the bumps and the odd feel of the carousel and just enjoy it!
not only your mates do it Dan http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/news/default.asp?storyId=25392
Dan1971
20-03-12, 06:39 PM
not only your mates do it Dan http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/news/default.asp?storyId=25392
Ouch .... and a hell of a lot more expensive !!!!
talkingcars
20-03-12, 06:48 PM
Ouch .... and a hell of a lot more expensive !!!!
But then I guess he proberbly has a bit more money than the average Joe, seen that RS200?
daytona365
22-03-12, 07:52 PM
Good news..................The track car will still be alive in heart, in our forum. I have bought its inlet manifold, so its lungs will be reused..........:flowers:
Dan1971
23-03-12, 02:54 PM
Good news..................The track car will still be alive in heart, in our forum. I have bought its inlet manifold, so its lungs will be reused..........:flowers:
Andy said you'd been - didn't think you'd bought it though -
There are a few members that have got bits from it. Interior's gone - some other bits n bobs - but I'm surprised the engine's still there - engine and gearbox for £250 I thought was a bargain to be honest....
There's also the cat back stainless powerflow that he'll let go for £120 ish and a stainless decat that's got to be worth £40 ....
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