View Full Version : What to do next?
mattie007
16-09-12, 08:54 PM
Having had the car back a few days and putting a few miles back on, I have to say I'm gutted that it's not running as sweet as it used to. Still drivable but with this annoying flat spot at 2.5-3k revs.
Anyway, the garage reckons it will need a new camshaft to fix the issue but they say that would cost as much as a replacement engine?
Realistically, how much would a camshaft cost(new and secondhand) and is it a big job to replace?
Having had the car back a few days and putting a few miles back on, I have to say I'm gutted that it's not running as sweet as it used to. Still drivable but with this annoying flat spot at 2.5-3k revs.
Anyway, the garage reckons it will need a new camshaft to fix the issue but they say that would cost as much as a replacement engine?
Realistically, how much would a camshaft cost(new and secondhand) and is it a big job to replace?
120? Get the part and drop it round here, I'll fit it for you :) lol
No idea what it will cost for the part though...
petet16
16-09-12, 09:01 PM
It would be easier to swap the whole head, using secondhand cams is not a good idea imo
petet16
16-09-12, 09:02 PM
Which camshaft do they think needs changing?
It would be easier to swap the whole head
Depends if you want to change the head gasket or not surely?
petet16
16-09-12, 09:11 PM
Depends if you want to change the head gasket or not surely?
I was just thinking that sourcing s/h cams might be difficult, I'm assuming the garage meant changing both cams.
mattie007
16-09-12, 09:14 PM
Should of mentioned its the lower camshaft. Imagine where the bottom of the cambelt is, that attaches to some kind of shaft through the bottom of the engine.
I'm not technical and have lost my Haynes!
petet16
16-09-12, 09:15 PM
Crankshaft you mean.
I was just thinking that sourcing s/h cams might be difficult, I'm assuming the garage meant changing both cams.
Fair enough... that does need clarifying...
But, could also be a good excuse to put a vvc head on ;)
Crankshaft? Ah. New engine would be easier there IMO!
mattie007
16-09-12, 09:19 PM
That's the one sorry!
Oh well, I'll just have to live with it then unless I can find a cheap engine orca garage that will take a part ex.
I assume it's a part that can't just be swapped out?
petet16
16-09-12, 09:22 PM
You can't swap it with the engine and gearbox fitted, and the cost of a new crankshaft would be way more than a decent s/h engine.
petet16
16-09-12, 09:23 PM
I'm assuming the timing belt drive gear has slipped on the crankshaft.
dont see how the crankshaft is causing a flatspot, what happened to the car previosly?
petet16
16-09-12, 09:31 PM
Item 11, £660
http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID003289
mattie007
16-09-12, 09:34 PM
I'm assuming the timing belt drive gear has slipped on the crankshaft.
I think it's something like that. The end of the crankshaft has worn.
dont see how the crankshaft is causing a flatspot, what happened to the car previosly?
The car suffered a worn camshaft causing the cambelt to move around. The parts that fit into the camshaft were replaced so it now idles properly, but when you put your foot down and expect a surge of power, instead it revs up without gaining speed until something clicks then your off again.
BUCKYDEVIL
16-09-12, 09:43 PM
Pretty sure I seen someone on here selling a great spec Engine that would be perfect for you.
Just cant mind the guys name ?
sounds more like your timing is perhaps out a tooth
mattie007
16-09-12, 09:58 PM
Pretty sure I seen someone on here selling a great spec Engine that would be perfect for you.
Just cant mind the guys name ?
Yeh I did see that Marcus but not sure if it would seem as powerful? Then again it does sound a decent spec. How much you after? It's giving me a headache now though. Do I keep it running like this or go for a new engine/turbo. Trouble is ive spent around £750 already and it's still not right :(
sounds more like your timing is perhaps out a tooth
It is mate but the garage said its the best they can do with the worn crank....
worn crank will knock not cause power loss
petet16
16-09-12, 10:11 PM
worn crank will knock not cause power loss
Ritchy the flat where the timing belt gear locates is worn, the garage have done some sort of fix to make it run
BUCKYDEVIL
16-09-12, 10:12 PM
Find out exactly whats wrong with yours first mate, no point splashing out till you know just what the problem is & feel sorry for you having to spend so much & getting nowhere,
must be very frustrating.
Im not in a hurry to sell my old engine as it's not on Ebay or Gumtree,
least you know it's here if you need it.
Ritchy put the same cams into his 1.6 & can vouch for increase in power,
with Z&F map it will have been quicker than your 120.
The option of you trying for a cheeky trade in might not be a bad idea &
would get you some of the money back you have already spent
mattie007
16-09-12, 10:15 PM
Maybe I'm not describing the power loss correctly. It doesn't 'lose' power as such, just doesn't really gain any when you accelerate at certain revs. Like I say the revs rise but the car doesnt gain speed, then all of a sudden its as though something connects and everthings back to normal. It's as though something's slipping.
mattie007
16-09-12, 10:19 PM
Find out exactly whats wrong with yours first mate, no point splashing out till you know just what the problem is & feel sorry for you having to spend so much & getting nowhere,
must be very frustrating.
Im not in a hurry to sell my old engine as it's not on Ebay or Gumtree,
least you know it's here if you need it.
Ritchy put the same cams into his 1.6 & can vouch for increase in power,
with Z&F map it will have been quicker than your 120.
The option of you trying for a cheeky trade in might not be a bad idea &
would get you some of the money back you have already spent
Cheers Marcus, will be in touch if I think it's an option. Just a shame your so far away!
BUCKYDEVIL
16-09-12, 10:22 PM
Cheers Marcus, will be in touch if I think it's an option. Just a shame your so far away!
No !! it's a shame that YOU are so far away.
up here we have Ritchy & Goldie on hand for help
Maybe you should move. lol
i`m not believing this Matt. Frustrating you`re so far away!!
mattie007
16-09-12, 11:35 PM
Yeh sorry, I should move up there! My mates in Perth atm, I should of tagged along but not sure what his misses would say on there honeymoon! Lol
I'm gona run the car for a few weeks, see how it goes then decide what to do.
did they put a new gear on it?
only thing i can think is the woodruff key is perhaps worn meaning the crank pulley gear is slighty off, but you can replace that, and the crankshaft gear is also replaceable, but even at that it would have to be very worn to actually effect the cars running. what your describing does sound like a timing issue
petet16
18-09-12, 06:42 AM
It doesn't have a Woodruff key Ritchy, it locates on a flat on the nose of the crankshaft.
Yeh sorry, I should move up there! My mates in Perth atm, I should of tagged along but not sure what his misses would say on there honeymoon! Lol
I'm gona run the car for a few weeks, see how it goes then decide what to do.
Mattie,
If your down Hampshire way at all, drop in one weekend and I'll take a look :) have rebuilt a few 1.8K's now and have a whole stash of parts in the garage (not sure about the lower part of the engine... but you never know... Worst case you'll have a second opinion :)
Slipping though... sounds like clutch? :)
It's been a long time since I've had the cam pulley off the crank but if it's a D flat that has worn then it's not the end of the world to fix! The crank needs to be locked in the correct place and the cams timed up and locked with the belt tight at the front. Then when everything in the correct place you need to drill the pulley and crank to take a dowel. It's not difficult to do tbh. Good luck with getting it sorted ;)
mattie007
18-09-12, 10:31 PM
Thanks for the help and kind offers, one reason I don't want to stray from the MG community.
Took it on its first 'long' run tonight, around 80 miles and it's dangerous to drive to be honest. Below 3.5k revs in any gear it just doesn't want to accelerate. Above that it flies, feels better than it ever has. Such a predicament as I'm tempted to strip for parts, on the other hand it could be a simple fix. Either way it's not going back to that garage.
I simply can't throw any more money at it, but I need a car for my job.
To add some perspective I used to be able to cruise at 55 in 5th. Now I have to use 3rd. If I use 5th the car slows down, 4th it feels lumpy and in 3rd gear it's revving high but at least it pulls :(
my bad pete, cant remember the last time i had one off, either way should be fixable:)
Nobrainer
18-09-12, 10:37 PM
Mattie,
If your down Hampshire way at all, drop in one weekend and I'll take a look :) have rebuilt a few 1.8K's now and have a whole stash of parts in the garage (not sure about the lower part of the engine... but you never know... Worst case you'll have a second opinion :)
Slipping though... sounds like clutch? :)
I have the lower part if your looking to complete your collection?
petet16
19-09-12, 07:19 AM
As I see it Mattie you've got a few choices, you could break it for parts, or source a better secondhand engine, then sell off the bits of your old engine which are useable, you can't really leave it as it is because how long could you put up with driving it like that.
Freds idea of drilling the timing cog and crank for a dowel would work, but would be difficult to do in situ.
Also, I don't think your being very fair to the garage by saying that it's not going back there, from reading your earlier posts it strikes me that they correctly diagnosed the problem and offered you the solution to that problem, you were unable or unwilling to pay that kind of money, so they put the engine back together as they found it, which is why it still has the same problem, but what other choice did they have, they can't work miracles, or fix the unfixable, I'm sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but it sounds like they did as much as they could under the circumstances.
I have the lower part if your looking to complete your collection?
IIRC Nobrainer's engine has head problems... and yours has crank problems...
The VVC 1.8 and the 120 1.8 engines share the same block...
So... it sounds like a fix it meet to combine the two into one decent working engine... ;)
mattie007
19-09-12, 11:24 PM
Your right Pete, maybe I was a tad harsh. Just feel deflated that it was in the garage for 5 weeks and it's the same.
ZS, does seem ideal but I have no mechanical experience. Need to get it sorted soon as my new job involves driving and I do like the look of the BRM!
Nobrainer, what do you reckon? Could we fit it ourselves?
If I break it, I reckon I could recoup the money...
Piper backbox £75
Power flow mid section £50
180 kit £150
Green leather seats £75
Green leather steering wheel £50
PiperX Induction £35
R45 lights £20
Fogs £20
Mk2 alloys with decent tyres £300
Chassis/shell/engine £200 scrap
Grille £25
Chrome mirrors £10
Mk2 ZS side strips £20
That's just over £1000 as a rough guide.
Stripping cars can take a long time to do and depends if people actually want parts at the time :) - I guess I'm trying to say its a lot of time and hassle... plus it takes up tons of space!
Can be quite fun though!
It just so happens I'm taking the engine out of the car I am stripping in a couple of weeks time (its been sold though!) so its not difficult... with yours you would remove all the gubbings that you want to keep then swap the block, then refit... I guess... or if you had use of a stand build the new engine next to the car, then fit it whole once you know it is working...
Nobrainer
20-09-12, 07:36 AM
Probably not the look you are going for...
pic (http://db.tt/Zs6099db)
You can have the block for a tenner, though i'll need a hand getting it out as have no lift. Hence why its been stripped in situ and is hanging off by the hydromount
mattie007
20-09-12, 10:03 AM
Ok, thanks for the offer. Just to clarify, if we are talking about the lower part of the engine that includes the crankshaft?
Can I ask why you stripped your car?
Nobrainer
20-09-12, 10:12 AM
Ive taken the head off so you can see the pistons. Would include block and sump. Not sure what happened to the engine. It just stopped one day, possibly the top end. Pistons turn over ok with flywheel so dont think there is a problem with that part but im no mechanic. When i took the head off one of the pistons was 'wet' but dont know if that was relevent. There was no hgf as far as i can tell. Your welcome to come and have a look. I wasnt going to bother stripping it any further as i thought there would be limited interest.
Ive taken the head off so you can see the pistons. Would include block and sump. Not sure what happened to the engine. It just stopped one day, possibly the top end. Pistons turn over ok with flywheel so dont think there is a problem with that part but im no mechanic. When i took the head off one of the pistons was 'wet' but dont know if that was relevent. There was no hgf as far as i can tell. Your welcome to come and have a look. I wasnt going to bother stripping it any further as i thought there would be limited interest.
Have you turned the crank with the head off? (Please say no! ;) ) a wet piston would indicate the head gasket had failed... or the inlet manifold gasket had failed...
Nobrainer
20-09-12, 12:59 PM
Er yeah. Why?
Er yeah. Why?
As I understand it....
Rotating the crank without the head (and not locking the liners) causes the seal around the liners to be disturbed and you then have to remove them, re-seal them and refit them.
Just slightly more work when putting it back together... (Without the seal oil and water can mix giving HGF like symptoms)
Last time I went that far into rebuilding a K Series engine was when the pistons were smashed and I replaced the liners as well... full overhaul :)
Nobrainer
20-09-12, 09:42 PM
Well i didnt know that and i was interested to try and see what had gone wrong so i turned it over on the flywheel. They all went up and down pretty easy :-) A blown head gasket wouldnt have stopped the car the way it did and there was no mayo etc, garage spent a couple of hours checking it out, got it started with a LOT of smoke but wasnt sure what the problem really was without stripping it.
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