Help or advice as I'm totally confused..

[Craig-ZS180]

Bit of a head vs heart thing going on ATM, I currently am considering selling the 180 http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l546/Craig_Dempsey/de401747.jpg to get a more practical family car for our current situation. Not saying the ZS isn't practical but now my partner and I have just had our second baby 4 weeks ago it's proving that running the 180 is maybe taking up a bit too much of my money. Only my income to support a now family of 4. My issue is if I do sell the 180 do I replace with a diesel version which will really only benefit on running costs or do I move upto a zt-t diesel? After just having gone out in the ZS for a "spirited" drive I am again in love with the noise and handling of it but again watching the gauge go down whilst doing so (nearly anyway) I then feel slightly guilty for the pleasure. Are the diesel models as good in the handling stakes as the 180's as the only derv I've owned was my old quite heavily modded 200 sd and that's why I was thinking about the 115 as a stating point. Anyway, thoughts keep flying through my head but I really don't know what way to go with it.. Any advice from others who have been in or are in similar situations would be appreciated and are the diesels anywhere as much fun?

[talkingcars]

How?
Why?

[Craig-ZS180]

How?
Why?

Sorry hit the wrong button before finished writing. Hazards of using the iPhone when totally shattered unfortunately.

[jorj]

I really wanted a zt diesel for the finish and quality but think the zs suited me more for tuning and handling I guess just think about what would suit you best

[WalkerDnB]

It it was me Id rather have a ZT Diesel than a ZS diesel tbh
also doesn't the ZT diesel use a BMW engine?

[Craig-ZS180]

I really wanted a zt diesel for the finish and quality but think the zs suited me more for tuning and handling I guess just think about what would suit you best

This I where it's difficult, I know that in reality the ZT-T would be far more practical with the extra space but my other half really doesn't like estates which is a negative against it and the second is that we both love driving the ZS.
I know the ZT won't handle the same but should I for now go with a more comfortable family tourer than a sportier hot hatch effectively.

It it was me Id rather have a ZT Diesel than a ZS diesel tbh
also doesn't the ZT diesel use a BMW engine?

Yeah they are the BMW engines, Come in either 116 or 135 bhp models which I think related to 113 & 131.
I've found they can be easily mapped too which gives a very nice torque output. Head says the ZT but heart I think is still saying ZS.
I just don't know as not driven either yet as all the local ones to me are out of my budget.

[talkingcars]

How?
Why?
Sorry hit the wrong button before finished writing. Hazards of using the iPhone when totally shattered unfortunately.

:rofl:

For what it's worth heres what I think.

The key to me is you saying "guilty pleasure. You need an outlet, not allowing yourself a bit of "me" will lead to resentment, yes, family come first but if you can do right by the family while retaining the car I would.

Just be a little more careful of when you put your foot down, even sign upto something like www.fuely.com and watch the fuel consumption, mine is improving through this.

Also do you really need an estate, holidays can be covered by the use of a roof box and most of the time the ZS is big enough.

If your car is sorted you run the risk of buying a money pit and even simply changing cars will cost you money, the ZS isn't worth a great deal so you'll need to put cash to it to get a "better" diesel.

I'd keep it, drive a little more gently and enjoy the 180 when you can.

James

P.S. congratulations on the birth of no.2.

[talkingcars]

And if you both like the ZS and your good lady doesn't like estates what are you gaining by buying a ZT diesel apart from a car that will cost more when it breaks?

[Captain Peanut]

I made the mistake of moving to an estate when my second came along, was great for lugging stuff on holiday once a year but cost a load more to run as a daily.

I think the two posts above hit the nail on the head, you are probably going to lose money on the 180 given current prices and will regret it.

[zsserbia]

I couldn't compare the three as I didn't own any other than the ZS derv, but someone on here will drop a line... Personally I wouldn't go for a ZT-T unless I really needed an estate, but each to their own.

As for the ZS derv, I don't see why it wouldn't handle the same as the 180, the brakes you may as well upgrade to 180 ones or some aftermarket setup. It will be slower and it wouldn't sound as pretty but it's a compromise you have to take when you want to save on fuel. Anything with a BMW engine would provide less mpg than the L-series.

Also, it being rather simple, there are less things to go wrong and most of the time you would drive it rather than repair it...

Although not so powerful, it's torgue won't dissapoint you and your pocket money would be enough to tune it a bit if you want a lot more power.

[Craig-ZS180]

:rofl:

For what it's worth heres what I think.

The key to me is you saying "guilty pleasure. You need an outlet, not allowing yourself a bit of "me" will lead to resentment, yes, family come first but if you can do right by the family while retaining the car I would.

Just be a little more careful of when you put your foot down, even sign upto something like www.fuely.com and watch the fuel consumption, mine is improving through this.

Also do you really need an estate, holidays can be covered by the use of a roof box and most of the time the ZS is big enough.

If your car is sorted you run the risk of buying a money pit and even simply changing cars will cost you money, the ZS isn't worth a great deal so you'll need to put cash to it to get a "better" diesel.

I'd keep it, drive a little more gently and enjoy the 180 when you can.

James

P.S. congratulations on the birth of no.2.

Thanks for the response James & the congrats, Mrs passed on a thanks too lol.
I totally understand where your coming from but this is where the head and heart are battling.
I know the value of the 180's is rock bottom unless you have something really special and then its still only worth what someone will pay for it do it's certainly not a time to sell one.
I do enjoy driving it a lot with things that I've done to it but it is still not "sorted" in my mind lol.
It will have to do as is though whatever happens for now.
This was why was wondering if the 115 diesel ZS is as fun drive wise as after having the 200 sd which was modded to 138bhp/278ft/lb I know the L series is certainly fun.
I work it out often that round town we get between 24 - 27mpg an on runs can get another 10 on top easily but remembering the diesel getting nearly 40 round town does appeal again.
The estates appeal as when we go out, buggy, bags and the boy wants his bike it doesn't get anywhere near in the ZS's boot.
Just need to think it over rather than rushing into something I may or may not regret. decisions decisions..

And if you both like the ZS and your good lady doesn't like estates what are you gaining by buying a ZT diesel apart from a car that will cost more when it breaks?

She's only ever driven a nasty escort estate and hence not keen but this was why I thought a far nicer example in a make she likes.
If after a test drive she's still adamant then change of plans I think.
Not too worried about parts as for BMW engines & box's I can get most bits as in the trade.

[Craig-ZS180]

I couldn't compare the three as I didn't own any other than the ZS derv, but someone on here will drop a line... Personally I wouldn't go for a ZT-T unless I really needed an estate, but each to their own.

As for the ZS derv, I don't see why it wouldn't handle the same as the 180, the brakes you may as well upgrade to 180 ones or some aftermarket setup. It will be slower and it wouldn't sound as pretty but it's a compromise you have to take when you want to save on fuel. Anything with a BMW engine would provide less mpg than the L-series.

Also, it being rather simple, there are less things to go wrong and most of the time you would drive it rather than repair it...

Although not so powerful, it's torgue won't dissapoint you and your pocket money would be enough to tune it a bit if you want a lot more power.

I know they are very tuneable and cheap to run after the old 200, this is why I do keep looking at the ZS option now.
Also like you say with the probable saved income over using less fuel, cheaper tax and lower insurance I would be able to make it more interesting to drive over standard.
Plus think still got some diesel goodies hidden away in the garage for the last L series.

I made the mistake of moving to an estate when my second came along, was great for lugging stuff on holiday once a year but cost a load more to run as a daily.

I think the two posts above hit the nail on the head, you are probably going to lose money on the 180 given current prices and will regret it.

This is the main heart argument, I know I will miss the v6 but if I keep plowing money into it am I going to lose the love and then regret not changing when I could possibly afford to.
If it does go I will have another one day.

[talkingcars]

This highlights why it was such a shame there wasn't a ZS estate - darn Japanese blocked that one.

[Craig-ZS180]

This highlights why it was such a shame there wasn't a ZS estate - darn Japanese blocked that one.

Yeah it does, I remember seeing that red civic estate that had the ZS front put on it and thought that looked great. It's a shame they never came through with that one as would've completed the range.

[Ritchy]

What kind of mileage are you doing? And whats the difference in insurance? Personally wouldnt buy a zt for cheaper running costs as they arent as reliable. Need to do the maths really, expected mpg from the new car over x number of miles and rough guestimate of the same distance i yours and work out what the price difference is to run. As said you may buy a lemon that needs a ton of work so factor that in too

[Craig-ZS180]

What kind of mileage are you doing? And whats the difference in insurance? Personally wouldnt buy a zt for cheaper running costs as they arent as reliable. Need to do the maths really, expected mpg from the new car over x number of miles and rough guestimate of the same distance i yours and work out what the price difference is to run. As said you may buy a lemon that needs a ton of work so factor that in too


Mileage varies tbh, never the same every month but in terms of tanks a full tank in the 180 will just get 2 weeks but when I had the L series I know I'm a 200 so would give a slight variable but that used to give me 3.5 to almost 4 weeks out of a tank. Even when on a higher mileage month the SD used to cover at least 3 weeks which was sometimes 650 miles of round town and motorway mix.
I know I'll get very little for the 180 but I'd probably sell it off the forum as not everyone outside the forum knows how cheap they can be. Got to try for the best possible result for my pocket really.
Difference on the ZS diesel is nearly £200 cheaper with possible mods declared whereas the zt is on par just cheaper tax and running "in general".

I know I need to weigh it all up properly but I always feel guilty running the V6 when I could possibly enjoy the diesel just as much with fewer running costs.
More money for the family and house.

[daytona365]

Keep the 180......................

[Dead Eye]

Just my two cents but if you are uncertain as to whether you will enjoy the diesel then you really need to go and test drive one and see what you feel - it seems like the most logical step forward at this stage

[Dan1971]

Well - I've had a ZT-T and a diesel ZS and a few 180s.

The ZT-T is a classy car. Very solid and feels really well made. It's also slower and thirstier. It costs a bit more when things go wrong. Sheppey's got a ZT-T and Im sure can confirm if it's any more practical for a younger family.

A ZS diesel is a great car. I got a 115 and after I got it running properly with a new MAF it went well. I saved a few pennies and for about £200 added SDis, blanked the EGR and got a decat on there and had it RRd at 151bhp. Sounded like a bag of spanners though compared to a 180 even though it went well.

Your issue is going to be pound notes. Bottom line is that your 180 will fetch around £800. A decent diesel ZS will cost you a few hundred more and a decent ZT easily a grand on top of that.

If I were you - I'd stick to what you've got. The ZT-T will be OK for when you actually spend over an hour in the car with ALL the family. All the rest of the time it'll be a waste of space.

Sit down and do the maths and look at it like an equation. I've said it to myself before around looking at cars - for example recently looked at changing my C4 to an insignia. It was going to cost me maybe £150 a month for 2 yrs. My thought process was simply is it £150 a month better than my C4 ? On the first of the month if I physically had to hand a guy £150 to drive an insignia instead of my C4 - would I be thinking - Yep - worth it. Bottom line - I thought Nope and the C4 is still outside.

Look at the maths and think to yourself - It'll cost me X to drive a ZS diesel or Y to drive a 180, or Z to drive a ZT-T - Make a list with your Mrs - pros and cons .....

[Alan.F]

Having owned both a 180 and a 135bhp Rover 75 tourer diesel (same engine as ZTT) for economy i would say yes do it was getting 45-50mpg from the 75 but you dont get the WOW factor with the ZTT when you boot it like you do in a 180. I currently have a ZT 1.8 Turbo this returns mid 30's mpg when you dont boot it, and it does go quite well when you do.

As far as the BMW engine goes yes it is a good one but the 75/ZT derv does have issues like the under bonnet and in tank fuel pumps go wrong on them, the under bonnet one is not that expensive but the in tank one is, If you keep the fuel level above quarter of a tank it seems to stop the in tank one failing,

If you are going to go for a 75/ZT i would get a saloon boot is huge on them because the rear seats are set further forward that the estate and i can get more camping gear in my saloon than i could in my tourer.

[Craig-ZS180]

Well this afternoon we went to look at a local ZT-T (was out of price range but was so the Mrs could see what he thought) outcome probably off the list now as she doesn't like the rear at all.
Hadn't really contemplated the saloons tbh but she really likes the looks of them so if the boot is as big that may be useful to look at, plus more about in my price range.
I can get hold of the pumps and clutches for them quite cheap if they were to go so not of a major issue as know what they cost and where can source but I know what you mean.
Yeah we really need to sit down and weigh the pro's and con's up however I think that I probably will be going the route of changing it as I just feel that for the next few years having a diesel will be better for my pockets.

I loved your ZS dan, if at the time I'd ha the money I would've bought that off you without hesitation but as usual when something you really likes comes up often the money is not about.
I know I will miss the V6 noise, a lot, but the diesel can be made to sound reasonable.

I appreciate all the suggestions and ideas you've all put forward, I think I need to sit and work out what we really need/want from the next car/current 180 and see what will benefit for the next couple of years as whatever I do will be what I need to stick with for at least the next 2 - 3 years.

Others input though from what they own or have owned is always welcomed as I've only had the 200 diesel from the mg rover range.

Thanks guys

[finyuk2005]

i recently bought bot a zt and a zt-t, both cdti's, the saloon is my folk second car and the tourer was going to be my sisters, (she didnt like it), my car is a ZS td, that is off the road for winter as it needs some work so i am running the ztt.
the ZT's are really great cars to drive, really comfy, but you can still throw them about and they do handle very well, the bmw engine is beautifully smooth, and just awesome for wafting about in comfort, when tuned to around 160-170 like mine are they go pretty bloody well too,
BUT!!!
as much as i love the refinement of the ZT's, every time i walk past my ZS i think, god dam that looks awesome, and then when driving the ZT i find myself ITCHING for the thrill of the ZS
not sure if you can take much from my ramblings but thats just my thoughts!

cheers
fin

[MG 53 ZED]

ZS TD to me is the most logical choice. You would still have a ZS but with better running costs, if you do a few modifications to it you will have a good amount of power giving great performance. Put a stainless steel exhaust system on her and she will sound better. I went from a 2.5L BMW to a ZS TD for the same reasons you have i needed to have better running costs but did not want to compromise too much on power and performance, put it this way i will not be changing my ZS TD for a very long time more smiles per miles:cool2:

[can i fix it]

hi i was just the same everytime i wen't out £30 so i got it lpg mine cost £1800 top speck model you can do 100 mph and still on lpg cheaper units go on petrol at 70 mph it was going to cost that sort of money to change to a ztt anyway now i get 25 mpg at £0.75 per lt it still uses petrol till the temp gets to 40 so a lot of start stop not so good just me and another way to go and it pull just as well

[Craig-ZS180]

I can see what your all saying with this as I do think I'll miss the ZS if I don't stick with it but although it'd be cheaper to run its not technically solving my space issue and I'm worried I won't enjoy it as much as it'll be missing the awesome sound track that comes with the 180.
I also now have another issue that over the past week a friend took me out in his modded Bolf (golf with bora front end estate) which has had various bits done and is very very low which I loved. Was great fun for a diesel estate. That also is putting out 168bhp & torque is very very high but can't remember the figure.
This is my problem again, I know ZS's are great fun but will it be ye same in a diesel as the V6 whereas I know a golf estate is not going to be as good but when modded is very impressive..

[Maxxed_Ross]

Just to throw one of those big "non MG" spanners into the works how about the last shape Astra? I run one of those as a practical daily driver and it covers most of the bases.

it looks really smart for an estate (there are loads of styling mods possible!), handles really well now I've fitted Eibach suspension with a bigger rear anti-roll bar and it returns well over 40mpg around town - with up to 75mpg on the motorway.

I've also had ours mapped up to 200bhp, so it'll give most things a run for their money. Even when it was standard at 150bhp it felt quite fast

Plus you have nice comfy leather seats, cruise control, parking sensors, loads of room and it tows fantastically well (I was getting 50mpg towing EX259 to Knockhill at slightly higher than legal towing speeds!)

[Craig-ZS180]

Just to throw one of those big "non MG" spanners into the works how about the last shape Astra? I run one of those as a practical daily driver and it covers most of the bases.

it looks really smart for an estate (there are loads of styling mods possible!), handles really well now I've fitted Eibach suspension with a bigger rear anti-roll bar and it returns well over 40mpg around town - with up to 75mpg on the motorway.

I've also had ours mapped up to 200bhp, so it'll give most things a run for their money. Even when it was standard at 150bhp it felt quite fast

Plus you have nice comfy leather seats, cruise control, parking sensors, loads of room and it tows fantastically well (I was getting 50mpg towing EX259 to Knockhill at slightly higher than legal towing speeds!)


Sweet, that all sounds very interesting and I have always liked the look of the Astra especially after seeing a red estate Sri cdti with the vxr kit on it. Looked very very nice indeed.
Only issue is that one like that is unfortunately well out of my price range but I can see where your coming from.
I really don't think I want to part from mg at the mo but I'm concerned that if I go the diesel route I won't enjoy it as much so thinking of why not try something totally different whilst we need "fun economy" and go bak to the ZS in a couple of years time. All food for thought.

[Maxxed_Ross]

you would be surprised how cheap they can be had these days... oh and the VXR kit is a must, my favorite mod on ours after the suspension set-up!