I've caused a bit of chaos on the Astra forum...

[Maxxed_Ross]

Well it looks like I've upset a few of the boy racers in the Astra world :whistle:


You constantly see posts about owners of 1.7cdti engines trying to get more power out of them. Now normally I'm all for that sort of thing - but after spending a fair stack of cash most end up with under 150bhp

Now for those of you not clued up on Astra engines you can buy exactly the same cars, for near enough the same money as a standard 1.7cdti that comes with a 1.9cdti that puts out 150bhp straight from the box - with the added bonus of having a few more toys inside, bigger brakes and a much bigger scope for tuning to well over 200bhp for the same money as they are spending struggling to get to 150bhp.

Not to mention the insurance benefits of having that power on a totally standard car against declaring all the mods on the 1.7 to get it there.

Am I getting old or does anyone else see that as a bit silly? :unsure:

[Malteser]

And whats wrong with the 1.7td lump? All Ive done to it is a slightly larger turbo, and uprated injectors and I love the way it drives. Will soon be tuning the fuel and boost once gauges are in and that should give me a bit more. Overall, about 130 euros spent.

http://www.themgzs.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=24890&highlight=rover

:D Just pulling your leg buddy. I personally dont mind cause everyone has their own opinion but at the same time you do have a point. Why not start with a bigger engine and spend less to get more.

[Maxxed_Ross]

nothing wrong with the 1.7 at all, I had one in my van... but it was never going to be tuned anywhere like Susans 1.9 estate ended up being tuned.

For me you modify a car to make it better... not to make it like a car you could go out and buy off the shelf

[carmadbaker]

Not getting old mate, just wiser ;-) makes perfect sense to me!

[stamford]

Same as Dan's comment, just wiser with it Ross. I have the 1.9CDTi and in standard form it is 150. I am the same, start with the better platform and add to that. However the younger ones don't always get it and think the smaller cc's will keep premiums down, but I would bet my car that 99% of them are not declaring the mods, or all of them hence the 1.7 being used.

I originally wanted the V6 version but after comparing figures I went for the 1.9 as once it was mapped it would have the same figures as the V6 but with better economy. Plus cheaper to maintain than the V6 diesel. But this sort of thought process is lost on the younger ones.

[Maxxed_Ross]

So if it's lost on the young ones I must be old

I knew it!

[Mark S]

the 1.9 is a fiat lump whereas the 1.7dti was an isuzu lump.

I thought there was a bout a grand difference between them?

The 1.9 will blow its M32 gearbox, they fail as early as 40k and most have destroyed themselves by 70k.
The 16v 1.9 will most likely give you egr problems, swirl flap problems which if your unlucky will ingest into the engine and chew up the turbo on the way out, and if your really unlucky and the water pump seizes, it will strip the camblet and give you major engine problems.
So there's 4 reasons to be careful.

The 8v 120bhp will tune to 160-165bhp which makes it fly and feel almost as quick as the 16v, without the water pump issues or swirl flap issues.

The 1.7 is cheap as chips, you can pick up an ex police 3 or 5 door in white for 1500quid, 3 years old with full history.
These have discs all round air con and sri seats.
A set of wheels, a remap and a bit of tarting up can provide a really cheap 3 yr old car.

The 1.7 will never be quick and will be passed by many a milk float and push bike.
ther stock 75bhp will usually only make 90bhp with just a remap, but they are reliable and will do 50mpg all day long.

Trying to get 150bhp from one is just plain stupid as one is much better buying the fiat powered 1.9 version.

[Ritchy]

I find tge 1.7 pretty agricultural compared to the 1.9

[peterzs]

Hi Ross, welcome to the club.

Older and wiser I reckon.

But remember you are only as old as feel.

:rambo::rambo::rambo::rambo:

[p_b82]

well no-one would embark on a project and tune a diesel to more than the factory limits now would they *cough cough*

Don't get me wrong, there is throwing good money after bad if the research and the development has been done, but if there are still unknown's then people will always push the boundaries, whether it is 'sensible' or not.

the L-series for example, put in a set of the SDI's and get it remapped, and leave everything else as it is, and you increase performance and factory figures by about 40-50%... that is cheap as chip it is only when you wanted to go further does things start to cost... as we have all discovered.... and that should now be less as some of us have worked out the failure points\reasons now for the benefit of the 'many'

If mods are not declared then they are stupid though i agree but declaring mods isn't that expensive now as lots of brokers provide cover for it now - my ZS is only £500 a year insurance in Bristol in BS6* currently with all mods replaced like for like,fully comp, protected no claims, commuting, 12k miles etc (*quite a high risk postcode even if the area i lived in wasn't)..... My 1.4 58 plate fiesta zetec with 8k annual miles, mirrored no claims no mods is £370....

As to whether i would make the same mods to my car a second time, the answer is of course no... if i had a crystal ball, and spotted the headlift due to a poorly spec'd turbo sold without any real testing having been done on it - i would have stayed well clear!

But I might have gone down the twin turbo route instead for a fraction of the cost i spent working out those issues and blown it up in a different way :laugh:

Oh and for some it is the challenge that makes it worth while... i know some-one that used the manual injection pump, normally only good for 85bhp and got it to spit out dam near 140 or thereabouts...

not sure if the above means i am old or young, but at 31 i am now a lot wiser than i was when i started the project regardless :laugh: !

[POMPSKI]

The 1.9 Fiat engine is beautiful for a diesel, had it in my Bravo, 40,000 miles trouble free bar an egr valve that was changed under warranty. Generally the water pump failures only come about when owners didnt get the belts changed on time.

[wilko66]

i'm with you, makes sense to me Ross. But you are getting old :)

[Steven11]

Vauxhalls :yucky:

[Din]

Vauxhalls :yucky:

:laugh:

I quite agree... though we have one, with perhaps the most rubbish engine .. Z22se.

Yup the family Zafira, i bought that with a spun big end on number 1 cylinder, they have nasty issues with timing chain failure oh and use oil like its going out of fashion.

I think ill stick to my 620ti and at some point soon the T16 ZS.

[Dan1971]

Well - I'll throw in my tuppenceworth.

What if they cant get the bigger one to start with ? I don't know anything about the VX diesel engines to be honest.

And if it applies to them - why do any of the 110 / 120 ZS boys tune theirs up ? Why don't they go for the V6 straight away ? Why bother with all that mapping, VVC bits, decat bits etc etc ...

If they've got a 1.7 - and they are happy with it, and they want to tune them a bit - up to them - and good on them for trying.

Not saying that starting with a bigger engine isn't the most sensible way - ofcourse it is - but - let them crack on if they are happy ....

[peterzs]

Bit like me Dan, with the Derv.

Love the looks of the 180, but know if I had one it would be foot flat to the metal, wheel spin on take off and looking over my shoulder for the flashing lights.

So I went for a Derv with all the kit, but........... found it a bit sluggish, so tweaked it here and there.

Now its wheel spin and burning rubber!!!!!!!!!!!!

Plus the cheaper road tax and extra mpg, come into the equation.

[Quadcam24]

what you said does make sense from a monetary perspective alone but folk want to modify their cars regardless.
sometimes folk cant afford the bigger engined car to start with but later on they come in to some money and it can be cheaper to just pep up the
car you have instead of swapping...at least if its a turbo , if its nasp then just get rid imo.
Its like folk who spend money modding the zs 120 or the td, they can spend more than the cars worth and still not even equal a standard 180, but the thing is you get attached to your car.
I learned for myself that modifying a car is akin to throwing money in the dustbin, ok you get the enjoyment, but when it comes to selling its usually just money lost.
So i decided in future i would always buy a car i could be happy with, that would do everything i wanted without needing to modify it.
A lot of so called performance mods are a complete waste of money anyway despite what the sellers claim.

[Din]

So i decided in future i would always buy a car i could be happy with, that would do everything i wanted without needing to modify it.


Hence a 335i... please say its an e92 ?

If i could afford any car, that is exactly what i would have !

Bar the early turbo wastegate rattle issue (which takes a fair bit of labour to sort) they are the mutts nuts.

[Supercharged_Z]

Times have changed indeed

Between a few members in the old XPF days I would be scared about the cash we have spent on our cars and lost when they are not worth anything second hand.

This is not putting any car down but the past 7 years in cars has been monumental in development and what you get as as standard package has improved as has technology.

Why spend big money modifying a car to be as fast as a superior car in the first place. Just buy the better car.

Im about to drop a load of cash on a 335D. This is a diesel car that remaped will develop 350 bhp on 750 nm of torque.. a road car...

Ok my car is quite specialist but nowadays you have to look at the cost of everything for what it gives.

[tcb 180]

We got a 1.7 dti estate 51 plate little cracker and we can't get it to do under 50mpg. AND it's staying that way. Why bother as you've all stated??????

[Din]

Im about to drop a load of cash on a 335D. This is a diesel car that remaped will develop 350 bhp on 750 nm of torque.. a road car...


God damn it... perhaps the best diesel engine ever in a road car, that said, the triple turbo diesel due in the x5mD is a claimed 400bhp... i miss bmw.

[Quadcam24]

Hence a 335i... please say its an e92 ?

If i could afford any car, that is exactly what i would have !

Bar the early turbo wastegate rattle issue (which takes a fair bit of labour to sort) they are the mutts nuts.

yes mate an e92.

[Quadcam24]

Times have changed indeed

Between a few members in the old XPF days I would be scared about the cash we have spent on our cars and lost when they are not worth anything second hand.

This is not putting any car down but the past 7 years in cars has been monumental in development and what you get as as standard package has improved as has technology.

Why spend big money modifying a car to be as fast as a superior car in the first place. Just buy the better car.

Im about to drop a load of cash on a 335D. This is a diesel car that remaped will develop 350 bhp on 750 nm of torque.. a road car...

Ok my car is quite specialist but nowadays you have to look at the cost of everything for what it gives.

sweet........is it saloon, coupe or estate ? i test drove an e92 coupe and then went home to way it up and sort the cash, next day i phoned up to pay a deposit and it had sold. !!
At that point i decided to try the petrol 335 before buying, i should have done that anyway but the diesel was so good i was convinced nothing could better it ...and im not sure the petrol does tbh, they are pretty much even in all aspects. I just found it a bit more exciting but im being picky tbh.
They're cracking cars im sure you will enjoy it, only thing that i wanted was a manual and as you know they don't do a manual 335d.
I suppose these days a manual doesn't give any better performance but i just like to stir the oil, feel a bit more in control etc.

Just a note, i'm a member on e90 forum and they say anything over 700nm torque and the gearbox's can start struggling.
Have you watched any remapped 335d videos on youtube....lmao at passenger reactions to 700nm, standard they are very rapid, remapped they are just brutal, and you can still get 45mpg, more on a run if your steady.

[Supercharged_Z]

sweet........is it saloon, coupe or estate ? i test drove an e92 coupe and then went home to way it up and sort the cash, next day i phoned up to pay a deposit and it had sold. !!
At that point i decided to try the petrol 335 before buying, i should have done that anyway but the diesel was so good i was convinced nothing could better it ...and im not sure the petrol does tbh, they are pretty much even in all aspects. I just found it a bit more exciting but im being picky tbh.
They're cracking cars im sure you will enjoy it, only thing that i wanted was a manual and as you know they don't do a manual 335d.
I suppose these days a manual doesn't give any better performance but i just like to stir the oil, feel a bit more in control etc.

Just a note, i'm a member on e90 forum and they say anything over 700nm torque and the gearbox's can start struggling.
Have you watched any remapped 335d videos on youtube....lmao at passenger reactions to 700nm, standard they are very rapid, remapped they are just brutal, and you can still get 45mpg, more on a run if your steady.

I want a saloon really, cant stand the coupes the lines are so flat and boring they really dont do it for me at all (no offence) they also all seem to be black with black leather lol.

Im holding out for a saloon in any other color than black with lemon interior and nav. Its only to chug about for work really but I cant see anything for the cash that gives the same smiles per miles with a remap

Seen the gearbox issues, il take my chances, others say smg cant take 400 bhp but mine does fine. If it breaks I will just fix it... Its just a case of finding a car tbh only 90 on the net and any one time by the looks of it which isn't to many

edit somthing like this is 100% what i want just not a cat D

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2007-BMW-335D-M-SPORT-LE-MANS-BLUE-DEKOTA-LEMON-LEATHER-355BHP-AMAZING-/140999812564?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item20d43e65d4