View Full Version : to tune or not to tune...
splinter
07-08-13, 08:55 PM
That is the question....
The story. After a cracking day at Castle Coombe the other week I have come to the conclusion my 120 hatch is not quite up to the job. While I had great fun chasing 160 TFs, surprising most in the corners, I got a tad miffed on the straights!!
So as most of you on here seem to have 180's the question is as above. Do i try getting more out of mine or take the plunge and sell to buy a 180?
Also I have been told the 120 actually handles slightly better due to slightly better weight distribution ie lighter front end. Anyone confirm or disprove?
Running costs don't really come into the equation but initial purchase cost does
MG ZS STE
07-08-13, 08:59 PM
Get a 180. I could throw my 110 round corners that my 180 wouldn't have had a hope. But the acceleration out of the corners you get in the 180 makes up or it in spades.
Skillen
07-08-13, 09:09 PM
Initial purchase cost for a 180 is peanuts now, unfortunate for the marque, fortunate for you.
Pick one up for about £5-600 and have a great time in it!
I have two I liked them that much!
daytona365
07-08-13, 09:14 PM
treat ya self to a 180, preferably a TY one.............
Initial purchase cost for a 180 is peanuts now, unfortunate for the marque, fortunate for you.
Pick one up for about £5-600 and have a great time in it!
I have two I liked them that much!
I'd say this..
Never drive a 180 but I'd say your better off with one for the money they cost.
My 120 has been played with and cost a fair bit of money, still only 140-145 bhp so miles off a 180
Mine has:
Power flow catback
Remap
52mm tb
Induction kit
135 cams
Dan
stamford
07-08-13, 09:42 PM
Two options, keep the 120 and VVC it and spend on the devil you know or buy a known 180 from an enthusiast with belts done and enjoy the smooth V6 :D
I've only had a 180 and wouldn't have anything else, with a bit of tweaking 200bhp is possible with breathing mods and a remap. However the stock 180 is capable with tight suspension, good brakes and decent tyres.
splinter
08-08-13, 12:24 PM
@ Daytona.. Sorry mate it would never be TY just a personal thing you understand. Well unless it was dirt cheap!!!
@Stamford...sure I read somewhere that it's next to impossible to remap a 180. Or is this justice case for silly power claims?
So the general consensus seems 180 so far. Some more input would be good before I part with the hard earned though.
Cheers for so far chaps
treat ya self to a 180, preferably a TY one.............
TB!! :spank:
peterzs
08-08-13, 01:20 PM
Wonder where there is a TB one for sale?????
:wave::wave::wave:
OllieZS
08-08-13, 02:39 PM
180 all the way, my 180 flys around combe and is the best car I have driven around track! Go for it, you wont regret it, and with a decent induction and exhaust set up the sound is incredible!
splinter
08-08-13, 02:52 PM
Wonder where there is a TB one for sale?????
:wave::wave::wave:
Prob being thick here but am I missing something?
Skillen
08-08-13, 02:56 PM
Prob being thick here but am I missing something?
Mick is. Lol.
splinter
08-08-13, 02:58 PM
Eh??
http://www.themgzs.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=26079
POMPSKI
08-08-13, 03:00 PM
Id be buying Micks car in a flash in your situation!
stamford
08-08-13, 03:03 PM
The 180 can be remapped, mine was done over 4 years ago. I was the first to be mapped by ReidyRemaps. We spent a day on the rollers tweaking the map until we found its optimum settings for the mods my car had.
peterzs
08-08-13, 05:00 PM
Id be buying Micks car in a flash in your situation!
so tempted, but with 3 cars, no where to park it.
:smile2::smile2::smile2:
splinter
08-08-13, 07:15 PM
Thanks Stamford...
Mick that is very tempting but alas a bit far from me and not being particularly mechanically minded a bit unsure re the intermittent misfire, especially as its going to be driven pretty hard. Any idea as to what may be causing it?
the 180 is thirsty and heavier, but surprisingly (when the engine almost hangs out the drivers side of the car) has great weight distribution.
Whilst you can remap them, you would be much better off spending that money in decent driver coaching, this would make you quicker per lap or a-b than the extra 8 or so hp a remap would offer.
Do the remap when you can not drive it any quicker than its possible to make it go.
as other post, the 1.8 may be more economical, but could also hit you with repair bills that a v6 may not.
Enright
08-08-13, 08:28 PM
the 180 is thirsty and heavier, but surprisingly (when the engine almost hangs out the drivers side of the car) has great weight distribution.
Whilst you can remap them, you would be much better off spending that money in decent driver coaching, this would make you quicker per lap or a-b than the extra 8 or so hp a remap would offer.
Do the remap when you can not drive it any quicker than its possible to make it go.
That is THE best advice I've seen. :clap2:
(Although I do like the idea of VVC'ing it) :thumbsup:
Cally180
08-08-13, 08:48 PM
180 all the way, my 180 flys around combe and is the best car I have driven around track! Go for it, you wont regret it, and with a decent induction and exhaust set up the sound is incredible!
Agree to this... What I noise mines makes.
talkingcars
08-08-13, 09:30 PM
Proper remap isn't all about extra top end bhp, it's more about pulling everything togeather.
talkingcars
08-08-13, 09:42 PM
@ Daytona.. Sorry mate it would never be TY just a personal thing you understand. Well unless it was dirt cheap!!!
How cheap is dirt cheap?
180 without a doubt, the added weight of the v6 over the front wheels actually improves handling, helps with the grip and therefore turn in response, adding power to the 120 is not going to reduce understeer :)
I have a fiesta st as well and on paper it should be less than a car length behind to 60 but in reality they are in completely different leagues. The speeds I can throw the 180 into a roundabout would see the fiesta tasting some hedges or worse! The main reason for this is the added weight keeping those front tyres pinned down. Don't even get me started on when it rains! Lol anyone into their reviews will know the fiesta is certainly not bad at getting round the bends so I'm still shocked at how much quicker the 180 will go.
Can you imagine if they had stuck an extra 40 bhp and slightly wider tyres as standard, ooo tingly feelings :)
splinter
10-08-13, 01:24 PM
@ MarkS...couldn't agree more. Paid for 15 mins tuition at Castle Coombe and Donnington. The difference was amazing. Wondered what all the fuss about Craner was until the instructor was sat beside me. Unfortunately my balls shrank back to normal after that!!!
@TC....it would have to be cheaper than Micks TB. Preferably with no faults and a full (ish) mot!!! Not much chance of me owing a TY is there!
POMPSKI
10-08-13, 01:27 PM
@TC....it would have to be cheaper than Micks TB. Preferably with no faults and a full (ish) mot!!! Not much chance of me owing a TY is there!
I have a moon you could have, as long as you are happy with it being on a stick?
:rofl:
splinter
10-08-13, 01:31 PM
Cheers for the input so far guys. Making a decision is becoming much easier
splinter
10-08-13, 01:34 PM
@Pompski.... As long as I can lick it, yes please. Moon tastes almost as good as windows
@ MarkS...couldn't agree more. Paid for 15 mins tuition at Castle Coombe and Donnington. The difference was amazing. Wondered what all the fuss about Craner was until the instructor was sat beside me. Unfortunately my balls shrank back to normal after that!!!
There are instructors and instructors, some ards instructors have never raced before.
Try and find an instructor or coach who will teach you the same driving techniques that are when required when racing,
If the instructor tells you to brake in a straight line then turn in, go find another. So many teach you this as that's what their told to teach you, but they don't drive like this themselves (certainly not in race situation), a decent coach will translate & convey the best line and technique.
Even the oaf clarkson trailbrakes - but then he has been tought by the stig!
talkingcars
10-08-13, 04:42 PM
@TC....it would have to be cheaper than Micks TB. Preferably with no faults and a full (ish) mot!!! Not much chance of me owing a TY is there!
I doubt you'd get any car with no faults and a full MOT for that sort of money, mine however has no major faults, 5 months MOT and is cheaper than Micks.
stamford
10-08-13, 05:53 PM
I had a good teacher once, the late great Gerry Marshall. That man was something else and what I did that day is always with me.
'Do as I say, not as I do'.
Still have his books.
Met him in the early 80s and did Castle Combe with him in a Firenza and again in my Magnum Coupe. The days before they stuck those bloody chicanes in! He was an honorary member of the DSG (HPF Firenza's, HS/HSR Chevettes etc) and often did fast driving courses with Bill Blydenstein in attendance. Good days and sad to know they are no longer with us.
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l259/stamfordzs180/Misc%20Cars/MagnumampGerry_zpsca3e0cb2.jpg
splinter
10-08-13, 06:20 PM
@MarkS....both the guys I had still do race. Only young lads (compared to me anyway!). One was actually employed as a test driver for a prototype team. Can't remember which one though. Both of them were very good in explaining the different lines, braking points, trailbraking (and why you should do it, especially in the wet) turning in etc. The session I had at Donny was wet but drying quickly so he guided me on the different dry lines etc while it was still wet. Found it somewhat strange going quicker on what your brain is telling you is totally the wrong line! Definitely money well spent.
@ TC...found your sales Ad. Will have a proper look in a min. Tbh I wasn't looking for a TY but never let it be said I'm not open minded! Where abouts are you in UK?
talkingcars
10-08-13, 08:43 PM
West Sussex, 10 mnutes from the end of the M23.
I disagree sorry. At that price youre aiming at, the 180 will need work. No disrespect to the guys selling, but i doubt either of them are track ready so at the very least they'll need money spent getting there. If yours is track ready and you know exactly what youve got, I'd change the engine to a vvc set up. You'll retain your own powertrain aswell. A Much more nimble, well balanced set up in my opinion.
My honest advice though would be to expand your budget and buy something from a reputable seller, ready to go. My experience of forum cars lately, not here i must add, have been things look great listed in an ad, but when you actually get in about them, they are only as good as the monkey thats fitted them.
(Reading that back sounds as if im doubting the integrity of the boys above who are selling, please dont take it as that, as thats not how I intend it.)
thered180
12-08-13, 10:16 PM
Horsepower sells cars. Torque wins races. Nuff said. :P
splinter
13-08-13, 08:02 PM
Thanks for the feedback once again..
ZRed... Thanks for another angle on things. A 160 conversion was an option, possibly still is. Think people have assumed my budget is around 600 quid, which is my fault really. At the moment I don't have a fixed budget as I was actually only after the thoughts of people with more experience of the zs. When I decide what I'm actually going to do I will set a price and work around that, whichever way I go.
I would just like a bit more grunt, primarily for track use. Whether that comes from a 180 or conversion of some description remains to be seen.
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