Considering the dark side again.

[Craig-ZS180]

I am once again considering moving on from my zs once the clutch, hydraulics and throttle cable has been sorted next week.
After the past month of driving round in the van which has cost naff all I am now very very tempted to go back to the derv.
I've found a car that I'm very tempted by but just don't know if I want it as a permanent fixture for sure?
Swap would be easy enough and wouldn't take much getting used to but I know ill miss the v6 growl.
What are thoughts guys from te ones that have made a similar move, have any of you regretted it that much?

The option car at present though surprise surprise is a mk1 zs hatch 99bhp with some nice creature comforts so could technically swap some bits over to keep it semi similar to what I'm used to.

[stamford]

Not driven a derv ZS but if the wallet is suffering do what is right for you. No doubt you will miss the V6 but you can always get another one day if you so desire. I also run a derv for the commute and general family wagon. My V6 is an occasional work run and weekend plaything.

[Maxfly]

Fair do's if you need to hav the economy of the derv but might it be worth Looking to see if one of the higher powered ZS dervs are available for the same kind of price.....ish

[Dave]

I was considering moving to a ZS180, from my tuned ZS derv.

James Raby very kindly let me drive his lovely motor, but i wasn't convinced enough, to make the change.

Yes, the derv doesn't have the growl of the V6, but the V6 doesn't have that kick in the back of the head that my derv has. Ok, my ZS derv isn't standard, running around the 155bhp figure, and 240ftlb torque.

Either of the standard power levels can be tuned to the same figure, around the 155bhp mark. The 115bhp version, does have a flat spot at around 3K rpm, so i would get the 100bhp version personally.

Test drive a tuned derv, then make a decision.

If you're ever around Peterborough, pop up to one of our area meets, and have a trip out in mine :)

Cheers
Dave

[Craig-ZS180]

All things I'm considering in fairness. I have owned a tuned L series in the form of a 200 but not as high power as Daves 155hp ZS. It was about 20hp off that but still went ok.
Only owned it for 10 months as missed the ZS too much and bought it to save money but ended up using it more because was saying to myself its cheaper :(
I'm wondering though if ill be happier with a zs derv as I love my one now and probably wouldn't sell if I wasn't starting to think of the finances a bit more but I just don't want to go and do something 8 months down the line I'm regretting.

If I did get one though, you can be assured that it won't be stayin standard very long as already have a list of things and few upgrades tucked away in the garage from the previous smoker.
Thanks for the offer of that Dave, I can't see us being your way at present but if we ever are and still considering the chane ill certainly be in touch mate :)

[Dave]

All things I'm considering in fairness. I have owned a tuned L series in the form of a 200 but not as high power as Daves 155hp ZS. It was about 20hp off that but still went ok.
Only owned it for 10 months as missed the ZS too much and bought it to save money but ended up using it more because was saying to myself its cheaper :(
I'm wondering though if ill be happier with a zs derv as I love my one now and probably wouldn't sell if I wasn't starting to think of the finances a bit more but I just don't want to go and do something 8 months down the line I'm regretting.

If I did get one though, you can be assured that it won't be stayin standard very long as already have a list of things and few upgrades tucked away in the garage from the previous smoker.
Thanks for the offer of that Dave, I can't see us being your way at present but if we ever are and still considering the chane ill certainly be in touch mate :)
You don't have the rev range in the derv, as you do in the V6, but once tuned, there is plenty of fun to be had.

If i'm honest, if i got rid of the derv before driving a V6, i think i would have been disappointed.

Don't get me wrong, the V6 is quick, but i never got the feeling of speed. Cruising in 5th, then drop it down to 3rd in my derv, you certainly feel the kick from the turbo.

I suppose if i never had my derv, and just had a 1.4, then a V6 upgrade, i'd be more than happy.

Horses for course really, but i am sure you won't be too disappointed with a derv once tuned.
Bare me in mind, if you do get the derv, and need it re-mapping.

Cheers
Dave

[peterzs]

Think the lower bhp derv can be mapped to 115/135 with a few mods and 158 ish with the SDi's. 234 ft/lbs torque, for the top end.

Just a matter of what power and what economy you are after.

[Craig-ZS180]

You don't have the rev range in the derv, as you do in the V6, but once tuned, there is plenty of fun to be had.

If i'm honest, if i got rid of the derv before driving a V6, i think i would have been disappointed.

Don't get me wrong, the V6 is quick, but i never got the feeling of speed. Cruising in 5th, then drop it down to 3rd in my derv, you certainly feel the kick from the turbo.

I suppose if i never had my derv, and just had a 1.4, then a V6 upgrade, i'd be more than happy.

Horses for course really, but i am sure you won't be too disappointed with a derv once tuned.
Bare me in mind, if you do get the derv, and need it re-mapping.

Cheers
Dave


I can certainly see what your saying but I still don't think the derv will ever give the same power feel as the 180. It would be very close but I still think the overall power from the v6 would be more noticeable. Maybe I am wrong but I've only ever compared it to my old 200 which was in no way slow and certainly when you got it in the power band on gear change certainly hurtled you forwards but it didnt feel as quick.
Anyway, the main point for me is being a proper petrol head would being in a derv bother me after a while and get boring, that's what I'm concerned about. I'm in no way knocking the diesels as I know how good they are but I'm just thinking how much is it going to cost to get it to a standard where I will be properly happy with it.

Any economy improvement will be a bonus but I would probably end up wanting as much power from it as poss but still be able to achieve a decent mpg when not wanting a loon. Not quite do easy in the v6 as everything I think ill have a calm drive I only need a clear but if road and it becons me to open it up again :)
Think I need to go out I'm one as you say to see what's what with the zs as the better drive of that may be enough to keep me happier with it being diesel? :)

[kev mocko]

I really like your zs too craig it looks the part now,i like the exhaust too what make backbox is that one?,i agree the v6 can be costly compared to a diesel but its the sound of the v6 im glad to have again,i had a combo 1.3cdti van for almost 5months and the difference when i got back in the zs for a test drive before i bought it put a smile back on my face

[POMPSKI]

Having owned a 150+ Derv I can see what Dave is saying, but it was nowhere near as quick as my 180, even when dropping down to third. I'd be interested in swapping cars Dave :p

[tcb 180]

Miss the sound track, the handling & performance. Don't miss the thin tin body panels that dent too easily, bland interior and hard ride.

On plus side, got a genuine 40k 2003 Merc C220 Cdi always gives 40 to 50 mpg and after winning one of those chip box things on ebay for £30 I got her from 143 to 170 bhp so she will pop along quite nicely.

I have an added bonus or two though. Got a lovely Astra Gte for sunny days and our 260bhp scooby will be finally on the road around November I guess. Can't wait for a blast in that one.

[Craig-ZS180]

I really like your zs too craig it looks the part now,i like the exhaust too what make backbox is that one?,i agree the v6 can be costly compared to a diesel but its the sound of the v6 im glad to have again,i had a combo 1.3cdti van for almost 5months and the difference when i got back in the zs for a test drive before i bought it put a smile back on my face

Thanks for the compliments :) its got a Piper cat back on it with 4" slash cut rear box. Used to have the 4" straight cut before. Also got a decat on it which does help with the noise and performance and sounds lovely when got with pops and so on.
Yeah the van is actually going today, options didnt work out with having that but christ the difference in economy was great. 140 miles + to £10 which was brilliant for round town blasting.
This is why thinking about the derv route again, low and slow with a smokey load of poke when wanted will be my approach :)

[Dave]

Having owned a 150+ Derv I can see what Dave is saying, but it was nowhere near as quick as my 180, even when dropping down to third. I'd be interested in swapping cars Dave :p
Swapsies, no returns?? :p

Cheers
Dave

[p_b82]

While mine isn't reliable yet, it is tuned that bit higher and it will give much faster cars a run for their money. handling wise it will be the same in the derv as the 180 as the KV6 and L are about the same weight, so it would just be learning to drive in the torque band not the upper rev limit.

I still get 40-45mpg out mine on average. It will go higher if i drive at 2000rpm every-where and short shift; but it will do less i i run it around at 4000rpm in every gear.

I would say consider your costs carefully. A diesel commands more money than a breathed upon 180 as standard, if you have had one looked after with the basic mods done then it will get a little more expensive still.

You'd have to do a lot of miles to make the fuel saving in purchase price alone... even if you sell yours for a good price...

I love my diesel (when it runs right) and I have in intention of swapping or selling it, but i dont think that I would go from a 180 to a derv and not feel dissapointed. the noise is something else, and the much higher rev limit is addictive....

I have considered getting a 180 as well to run, as i am curious and they are cheap as chips at the moment - but i dont need 3 cars, and the little fester is used round the city and I am not sure I could be that cruel to a ZS, my derv HATES doing short trips!

With my new turbo in the pipeline I am aiming once more at 200 ponies - would be cruel to have a V6 that was slower than an old tractor :D

[Dan1971]

Diesels are all about the miles you do and your finances.

If you need to cut costs - get one. If not - there is no way in hell that it will be a better place to be than a 180. I don't care what you say about performance. A standard 180 - is faster than a 160 tuned diesel.

My diesel was tuned to 151 and rr'd at that figure. It went well, but every morning the clatter was crazy - every time you stopped at a set of lights or give way, the clatter was crazy - every time I booted it .... blah blah - you get the idea.

And Dave - I said this before when you made a comparison either here or on another site - you drove a dog mate. Mine goes like the clappers, been RRd at 184 the other week and if you'd like to have a drive, you'd be more than welcome - or even Pompski's well sorted example with a few breathing mods meaning that if his vis motors are OK his should be making even more.

But - when I'm stationary, I can't hear the engine, and when I do put my foot down, it's beautiful.

Craig - if you need some cheap transportation - get one. If not - don't bother. It'll never be the same.

[Dave]

Diesels are all about the miles you do and your finances.

If you need to cut costs - get one. If not - there is no way in hell that it will be a better place to be than a 180. I don't care what you say about performance. A standard 180 - is faster than a 160 tuned diesel.

My diesel was tuned to 151 and rr'd at that figure. It went well, but every morning the clatter was crazy - every time you stopped at a set of lights or give way, the clatter was crazy - every time I booted it .... blah blah - you get the idea.

And Dave - I said this before when you made a comparison either here or on another site - you drove a dog mate. Mine goes like the clappers, been RRd at 184 the other week and if you'd like to have a drive, you'd be more than welcome - or even Pompski's well sorted example with a few breathing mods meaning that if his vis motors are OK his should be making even more.

But - when I'm stationary, you can't hear the engine, and when you do when I put my foot down, it's beautiful.

Craig - if you need some cheap transportation - get one. If not - don't bother. It'll never be the same.
I remember you saying the same mate, obviously i am not going to say the car is bad or not, as James was kind enough to allow me a drive in his pride and joy. To be fair, i have not had experience of another 180, so i have nothing to compare to.

Will have to get you up to an area meet sometime, and well have a trip out to compare :)

Cheers
Dave

[Dan1971]

I remember you saying the same mate, obviously i am not going to say the car is bad or not, as James was kind enough to allow me a drive in his pride and joy. To be fair, i have not had experience of another 180, so i have nothing to compare to.

Will have to get you up to an area meet sometime, and well have a trip out to compare :)

Cheers
Dave

It would be a pleasure .... :beer2:

[Craig-ZS180]

Diesels are all about the miles you do and your finances.

If you need to cut costs - get one. If not - there is no way in hell that it will be a better place to be than a 180. I don't care what you say about performance. A standard 180 - is faster than a 160 tuned diesel.

My diesel was tuned to 151 and rr'd at that figure. It went well, but every morning the clatter was crazy - every time you stopped at a set of lights or give way, the clatter was crazy - every time I booted it .... blah blah - you get the idea.

And Dave - I said this before when you made a comparison either here or on another site - you drove a dog mate. Mine goes like the clappers, been RRd at 184 the other week and if you'd like to have a drive, you'd be more than welcome - or even Pompski's well sorted example with a few breathing mods meaning that if his vis motors are OK his should be making even more.

But - when I'm stationary, I can't hear the engine, and when I do put my foot down, it's beautiful.

Craig - if you need some cheap transportation - get one. If not - don't bother. It'll never be the same.

I was waiting for your response Dan, I remember reading the clatter clatter description before and that it wouldn't compare. I do understand where your coming from but I can only compare to my old 200 that was played with.
I would really love to get mine on the rollers just to see what its putting out but the closest one to me as I say is over £80 and I don't want to pay that to find out what it is. Now the vans gone and I temporarily have some money (not really spare though) I am very tempted to book in somewhere to see what its doing.. 184 is brilliant, even with the mods on mine if be surprised if its that good, would like it to be but don't know. Saying that though last weekend I was out with my mate who's got the Cupra R I mentioned in previous posts, it is very quick and drives so nicely with 274hp but on sat night we were being enthusiastic and he couldn't shake the zed, not in the way he should've anyway as was only just half a cars length by the time I was into 4th gear.
The old girl did do well being he has possibly an extra 100 under the bonnet.

Anyhow, its jut ideas or thoughts at present as money is a bit tight and am just wondering if I could enjoy a derv to give us a little financial ease for a bit.
Would probably regret it though.

[welshone]

Recently moving from a 180 to a TD I can honesty say the engine note is a lot different :laugh:

The fuel costs is a lot better :)

Insurance surprisingly is a little more. :(

Really do miss the V6 roar and the way the power is delivered :(

Definitely think this is going to be the last ZS I own and don't think i'm going to have it long.

[Dan1971]

I was waiting for your response Dan, I remember reading the clatter clatter description before and that it wouldn't compare. I do understand where your coming from but I can only compare to my old 200 that was played with.
I would really love to get mine on the rollers just to see what its putting out but the closest one to me as I say is over £80 and I don't want to pay that to find out what it is. Now the vans gone and I temporarily have some money (not really spare though) I am very tempted to book in somewhere to see what its doing.. 184 is brilliant, even with the mods on mine if be surprised if its that good, would like it to be but don't know. Saying that though last weekend I was out with my mate who's got the Cupra R I mentioned in previous posts, it is very quick and drives so nicely with 274hp but on sat night we were being enthusiastic and he couldn't shake the zed, not in the way he should've anyway as was only just half a cars length by the time I was into 4th gear.
The old girl did do well being he has possibly an extra 100 under the bonnet.

Anyhow, its jut ideas or thoughts at present as money is a bit tight and am just wondering if I could enjoy a derv to give us a little financial ease for a bit.
Would probably regret it though.

Wouldn't do any harm going on the rollers mate and if you do decide to sell, could be considered a good thing to have a proven dyno read out to demonstrate that the motors etc are all in good order. Tx Autosport in Harlow - £40 - maybe we could get that figure down if a few people were up for it - it's been muted.

[Craig-ZS180]

Wouldn't do any harm going on the rollers mate and if you do decide to sell, could be considered a good thing to have a proven dyno read out to demonstrate that the motors etc are all in good order. Tx Autosport in Harlow - £40 - maybe we could get that figure down if a few people were up for it - it's been muted.


Yes I remember that thread now, yep £40 is much more reasonable even with driving there its still cheaper than my local one. I may have to get in touch with them to see when I can get booked in as am keen to see what's goin on under the hood :)

[talkingcars]

.............. as am keen to see what's goin on under the hood :)

http://library.duke.edu/digitalcollections/media/jpg/gedney/med/KY0297.jpg

[Craig-ZS180]

Haha, love it. :D

[B8sy]

Hi Craig, I once made the move from a honda s2000 to a diesel Audi a3 (s2000 write off unfortunately and needed cheap to insure car). Even though the short but punchy rev range was great for a few of my favourite bends in the Lake District overall I got bored after about 6 months as I was fed up of changing gear every time you get going. There is a line where gear changing is excessive and every diesel I have driven has crossed that line! I sold the a3 after 12 months and went for BMW 325 and never looked back.

Having said that if I only ever drove motorways I would get a diesel, otherwise it's no content in my personal opinion.

[ian zs180]

Diesels are all about the miles you do and your finances.

If you need to cut costs - get one. If not - there is no way in hell that it will be a better place to be than a 180. I don't care what you say about performance. A standard 180 - is faster than a 160 tuned diesel.

My diesel was tuned to 151 and rr'd at that figure. It went well, but every morning the clatter was crazy - every time you stopped at a set of lights or give way, the clatter was crazy - every time I booted it .... blah blah - you get the idea.

And Dave - I said this before when you made a comparison either here or on another site - you drove a dog mate. Mine goes like the clappers, been RRd at 184 the other week and if you'd like to have a drive, you'd be more than welcome - or even Pompski's well sorted example with a few breathing mods meaning that if his vis motors are OK his should be making even more.

But - when I'm stationary, I can't hear the engine, and when I do put my foot down, it's beautiful.

Craig - if you need some cheap transportation - get one. If not - don't bother. It'll never be the same.

That's well put that dan I,ve gotta say I couldn't bring myself to have a diesel over the 180 for all the reasons you have said there

[redzed]

184 is brilliant, even with the mods on mine if be surprised if its that good, would like it to be but don't know. Saying that though last weekend I was out with my mate who's got the Cupra R I mentioned in previous posts, it is very quick and drives so nicely with 274hp but on sat night we were being enthusiastic and he couldn't shake the zed, not in the way he should've anyway as was only just half a cars length by the time I was into 4th gear.
The old girl did do well being he has possibly an extra 100 under the bonnet.

did the same with a friends cupra r last weekend too, and he couldnt keep up with me. most probably had a crap rolling road tell him his 220bhp was 270 (very common) also its quite a bit heavier car. zs's are so underrated. Not had any of my friends "quicker cars" show my zeds up yet.

[Craig-ZS180]

did the same with a friends cupra r last weekend too, and he couldnt keep up with me. most probably had a crap rolling road tell him his 220bhp was 270 (very common) also its quite a bit heavier car. zs's are so underrated. Not had any of my friends "quicker cars" show my zeds up yet.

Well his was done at AMD in lakeside, I don't think they're too bad with their figures and you usually get what they say. Wasn't a cheap "back street" remap. I know the zs is underrated, most knock it until they've either been in it or been surprised how it either keeps with them or makes them struggle to keep up. I was a little shocked as I had loads of bits in the car at the time too, all the kids bits, buggy, car seats and then 2 subs so not exactly running light but he was rather upset that I managed to keep with him.
He had to change gear twice to my one change though so shows how different the gearing is between the two :)

Either way, good result.

[POMPSKI]

Smooth power delivery makes it appear slower than it is, especially with all the new engines being Turbo's. N/A is pretty much a thing of the past now, and I love it.