External temp sensor help needed!!!??? [Archive]

jonnybriggs69

12-01-14, 10:09 PM

Hi all,

Basically I've bought a mk2 180. It would seem that a previous owner had binned it into a field and had it badly repaired. I've just replaced the front bumper with the correct one, as some clown had put a standard zs bumper on it......

The problem I have is with the aircon. I have an e4 error code. From reading up on the various forums it seems that the problem is with the exterior ambient temp sensor usually located inside the front bumper. ........ The problem is that there isn't one there..... I have the sensor from the new proper bumper - thanks Mark.... But we couldn't see or find we're it actually plugs in in to the wiring loom......

Could someone give a detailed description of we're it needs to connect to the loom... A photo would be great if anyone has a bumper off!!!

Any relevant help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

talkingcars

12-01-14, 10:12 PM

It fits on a bracket behind the nearside foglight, the plug should be there somewhere.

jonnybriggs69

12-01-14, 10:34 PM

It fits on a bracket behind the nearside foglight, the plug should be there somewhere.

I know that the sensor fits to clips to the bumper ~ the question is where does the other end of the sensor attach to the wiring loom?.... there is a possibility that the "mechanic" that did the work may have cut the cable off - so i need to know where it should be.....

Maxfly

13-01-14, 06:54 AM

Not a 100% but I think it runs down with the fog light wiring........not paid a great deal of attention to it when I have had bumpers off but can't remember too many wires hanging about in that area.

andys1981

13-01-14, 06:57 AM

when i had took the bumper off mines,i hadnt clipped it back in properly and was getting the e4 code,had another look and located it properly,then the code went off,the loom will be behind the passengers foglight,as james said,along with the wiring for the horn.

Jason04r

13-01-14, 08:32 AM

jonnybriggs69

13-01-14, 08:39 AM

Cheers guys.......

I know that it is in the general area and have obviously spent some time looking for where it should go to no avail.

As I said - I think that someone may have the plug off of the loom. I'm really in need of a technical answer....

petet16

13-01-14, 08:47 AM

If the plug or cut off wiring isn't obviously visible you'll end up needing to un bundle the loom in the area of the horn/rh front fog to find the cut wiring, I don't see any other solution tbh.

jonnybriggs69

13-01-14, 09:25 AM

If the plug or cut off wiring isn't obviously visible you'll end up needing to un bundle the loom in the area of the horn/rh front fog to find the cut wiring, I don't see any other solution tbh.

Thanks Pete. I agree - that will probably be the course of action needed. I'm hoping that someone may be able to tell me what wire I will need to find - colour/location etc.....

There seems to be nothing in Haynes manual - so need someone knowledgeable on the subject!

Smokey

13-01-14, 09:34 AM

I can answer this tomorrow as I am replacing my sensor, weather permitting!

petet16

13-01-14, 09:47 AM

I can't remember what colour the cables were, I had to fit a new plug for the replacement sensor, but it was a few years back.

The Haynes doesn't show much for the mk2.

jonnybriggs69

13-01-14, 10:02 AM

I can answer this tomorrow as I am replacing my sensor, weather permitting!

Smokey - that would be awesome! If you would be able to take a quick picture whilst you're at it too..... would be fantastic!! Fingers crossed on the waether for you? Do you have the same E4 error? My fans won't come on at all..... do you think this will sort?

jonnybriggs69

13-01-14, 10:56 AM

:-)

Smokey

13-01-14, 11:17 AM

petet16

13-01-14, 11:30 AM

Smokey - that would be awesome! If you would be able to take a quick picture whilst you're at it too..... would be fantastic!! Fingers crossed on the waether for you? Do you have the same E4 error? My fans won't come on at all..... do you think this will sort?

Which fans are we talking about, the engine cooling fans, or the blower motor for the interior.

You can make the atc do a self test by keeping the auto button pressed and turning the key to position 2, it should show any fault codes.

jonnybriggs69

13-01-14, 12:28 PM

I doubt it will fix the fan issue as it's just a sensor for external temp. My system works full except the flashing E4 error code (and that it thinks it's 34 degrees celcius out!)

I will take photos too.

Ahh. ******. At this point I had assumed that it would fix it. The interior fans don't work at all....they did work once when I first got it - ive done a couple of hundred miles now and they wont come on at all. Would this be something else entirley then?

Thanks again for your willingness to help!

jonnybriggs69

13-01-14, 12:38 PM

Which fans are we talking about, the engine cooling fans, or the blower motor for the interior.

You can make the atc do a self test by keeping the auto button pressed and turning the key to position 2, it should show any fault codes.

Sorry - yes its the internal fans/blowers that aren't working - it did work briefly a couple times a few weeks ago - but not at all now.

I had (rather stupidly it seems) assumed that the fixing E4 error code would fix fans.....

I have done the test and along with E4 I have had an E9 error too. I will do the test again this evening and see if it does anything else!

Any further ideas - I'm not to bothered about the external temperature then - although I would like to put the e4 error right......... the important thing is to get the fans blowing!

petet16

13-01-14, 01:06 PM

jonnybriggs69

13-01-14, 01:14 PM

E4 is the interior temp sensor, it's located behind the little grill next to the atc display.

E9 is the external sensor clipped to the l/h foglight bracket, the cable colours for the external sensor are Blue/White and Black/Grey.

Thank you Pete. Are we saying then that it is the sensors that are stopping the fans from working - or would that be something else?

Cheers

petet16

13-01-14, 01:34 PM

The exterior one, no, it'll just give wild outside temp readings, the interior one quite possibly.

The blower fan is really easy to access from the passenger foot well, it's fitted to the bottom of the heater unit with 3 bolts, and the power connector, it would be worth popping it out to make sure it spins freely.

POMPSKI

13-01-14, 02:48 PM

Mark S

13-01-14, 04:39 PM

I think I may have an internal sensor as well as a spare atc unit if you want to borrow them to try/test.

Smokey

13-01-14, 06:23 PM

E4 is the interior temp sensor, it's located behind the little grill next to the atc display.

E9 is the external sensor clipped to the l/h foglight bracket, the cable colours for the external sensor are Blue/White and Black/Grey.

Pete, I'm not sure how accurate you are. When I unplug my internal sensor, I get an E0 error, when I plug it back in, the error clears.

I have this table which would suggest E4 and E0 is a front temp sensor failure as they both relate to this.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff96/smokeysworld/atc_zpsd6bb8c32.png

Smokey

13-01-14, 06:28 PM

This would also make sense if the wires were cut as they may be touching the car, earthing the cable and creating the E9 error

petet16

13-01-14, 06:36 PM

I got the info off a post on .org, but yours makes more sense as both codes relate to the external sensor.

Smokey

13-01-14, 09:03 PM

Not often I'm right about something lol, it's only because I've had my centre console out a hundred times!

petet16

13-01-14, 09:13 PM

How many times ???:laugh:

Smokey

13-01-14, 10:41 PM

Well are we counting times removed or days without one in the car?!?!

jonnybriggs69

14-01-14, 07:08 AM

I think I may have an internal sensor as well as a spare atc unit if you want to borrow them to try/test.

Thanks Mark - I'll have a play around at the weekend and give you a buzz if thats ok?

jonnybriggs69

14-01-14, 07:10 AM

http://www.themgzs.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=22692&page=15

Not sure if it is any help, but I replaced mine - Couple of pics on my thread, sure I have some more somewhere. I'll have a dig.

Also with my broken ext: temp sensor, I was not receiving any hot air at all until 'hot' was actually selected.

Thanks Pompski! Thats brilliant. It is going to be the weekend before I get chance to have a mess around. I shall give an update then...

jonnybriggs69

14-01-14, 07:11 AM

Pete, I'm not sure how accurate you are. When I unplug my internal sensor, I get an E0 error, when I plug it back in, the error clears.

I have this table which would suggest E4 and E0 is a front temp sensor failure as they both relate to this.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff96/smokeysworld/atc_zpsd6bb8c32.png

Smokey - thanks again. This all looks like it will be a great help. Thank you.

jonnybriggs69

16-01-14, 07:35 AM

So....... just before I start to remove all the dash etc......... Is it likely to be a fuse that's stopped the blowers from working? If its a possibility can anyone tell me which fuse it would be?

Thanks

Jonathan

petet16

16-01-14, 10:13 AM

Have you had the fan out to see if it still turns, it's about 10 minutes work and requires no dismantling of the dash, a multimeter on the fan power connection would be worth doing as well.

jonnybriggs69

19-01-14, 05:07 PM

Have you had the fan out to see if it still turns, it's about 10 minutes work and requires no dismantling of the dash, a multimeter on the fan power connection would be worth doing as well.

Right.... I've had the fan out and a multimeter on the connector and thee is definitely power coming to the fan unit. How much power should there be to drive the fan.... Amps or volts........

I've tested the fan unit on my 12v battery charger and it works fine.

I've also had the dash off and the internal temperature sensor fan was sh!tted up. I've cleaned that and it seems ok.... But still getting e4 error. So could still be the sensor that is the problem.....

Strange that the multimeter is showing some power coming through but not spinning fan!!!???

Help please!!!!????? I'm more confused now than before!

jonnybriggs69

19-01-14, 05:09 PM

I think I may have an internal sensor as well as a spare atc unit if you want to borrow them to try/test.

Hi Mark

Would you mind if I take you up on your offer please?

Are you around one evening in the week so that I could swing by?

Cheers

Jonathan

petet16

19-01-14, 05:15 PM

The voltage on the fan plug will vary with the speed selected, but it should be 12v at max speed.

petet16

19-01-14, 05:18 PM

Have you fitted the new external temp sensor.

jonnybriggs69

19-01-14, 05:23 PM

Have you fitted the new external temp sensor.

Not had chance yet.... Was taking your advice and checking the fan and internal sensor first.

Mark S

19-01-14, 06:15 PM

Hi Mark

Would you mind if I take you up on your offer please?

Are you around one evening in the week so that I could swing by?

Cheers

Jonathan

no probs, but you should find out the colour code/wires for the ext temp sens also as I may be able to get you a piece of loom if your is missing.

jonnybriggs69

19-01-14, 06:35 PM

I think that front bumper may be coming off again!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Smokey

20-01-14, 12:30 AM

The wires are black/grey stripe and blue/white stripe

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff96/smokeysworld/20140114_152800_zpsaskrvyrz.jpg

jonnybriggs69

20-01-14, 07:18 AM

The wires are black/grey stripe and blue/white stripe

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff96/smokeysworld/20140114_152800_zpsaskrvyrz.jpg

Thanks Smokey - good man. Is it near the battery?

Smokey

20-01-14, 09:30 AM

No, they go to the right hand side (as you look at it or passenger side) fog light box.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff96/smokeysworld/2014-01-20%2010.28.30_zps3zjzeoag.jpg

talkingcars

20-01-14, 10:56 AM

That's under the battery.

Smokey

20-01-14, 11:18 AM

As it's not within the engine bay, I thought that that may be a misleading description, but I guess so. It's behind the slam bar, behind the bumper.

jonnybriggs69

20-01-14, 12:00 PM

Perfect - Cheers guys!! It will be the weekend again now for me before I can look..... Can you access if car is on ramps or does the bumper need to come off?

R8NMG

20-01-14, 12:32 PM

Perfect - Cheers guys!! It will be the weekend again now for me before I can look..... Can you access if car is on ramps or does the bumper need to come off?

If you have access to a ramp then the front bumper doesn't have to come off. There is a little access panel underneath to fit the sensor.

jonnybriggs69

26-01-14, 05:11 PM

Right.... I've had a weekend of testing and trying to solve this problem.

I have tested the fan... It works fine.

I have tested the internal temperature sensor and the atc unit itself by using (mark s's) spares.... (Cheers).

I haven't yet been able to test the resistor pack so it seems that it must be this, however...... The blowers do come on intermittently....

So the next question is would the blowers still work intermittently if the resistor pack had actually failed or is it just failing? Orrrrr could it be something else?

Cheers

R8NMG

26-01-14, 06:58 PM

These mk2 180 ATC resistor pack really are a pain in the backside. I feel for you as I am having similar issues.

What do you mean by intermittently? Does the fan goes fast, slow, fast, slow when you switch it on?

jonnybriggs69

26-01-14, 09:13 PM

Indeed! Thank you..... Same to you!

The problem I have is that I have no fans whatsoever for 95% of the time.... Every now and again the fans come on for a bit and then just go off again!

I was hoping to ascertain as to wether it is definitely this damn resistor pack or if it could be something else?!?!

R8NMG

26-01-14, 09:31 PM

It will either be the fan or the transistor.

When I had mine on the final 3 max settings, the fan started to stutter. I think it eventually blew my transistor.

Fitted new transistor and it did the same thing with the fan stuttering. It turned out the fan is broken even though it still spins. Put a different fan on and the whole system works fine.

My problem it all started with a dodgy fan and it led to a bigger problem.

petet16

26-01-14, 09:32 PM

If you have a multimeter, do the same checks that Ron has done on the fan connector, it's in his atc thread.

R8NMG

26-01-14, 09:35 PM

If you have a multimeter, do the same checks that Ron has done on the fan connector, it's in his atc thread.

Pete when I receive this new fan, I think I will check the resistance on that one. Remember both my other 2 fans only gave me 2ohms so will be interesting to see what the new fan gives.

petet16

26-01-14, 09:41 PM

It should give a good number to compare against, 2 ohms didn't sound too bad, but it should maybe a lot less.

pheelay

26-01-14, 11:02 PM

Thanks Smokey - good man. Is it near the battery?

Did you sort the external sensor? In addition to what smokey added, I had the bumper off today and noticed one of my pics caught the full route of the external sensor loom.

It runs out the headlight cavity (under the headlight) and drops down, vertically, behind the crash bar and towards the fog light.

http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa436/pheelay/2014-01-26122354_zpsffd26dc7.jpg

It's been moved out of the way in the pic.

R8NMG

28-01-14, 09:25 PM

It should give a good number to compare against, 2 ohms didn't sound too bad, but it should maybe a lot less.

Well received the new fan and it gave me 1.5 ohms.

petet16

28-01-14, 09:31 PM

0.5 of an ohm must make a big difference, assuming the new fan works at all speeds.

R8NMG

28-01-14, 10:05 PM

0.5 of an ohm must make a big difference, assuming the new fan works at all speeds.

Yup it's all working fine now at all speeds.

petet16

28-01-14, 10:18 PM

Excellent, so now we know, any more than 1.5 ohms resistance on the motor is bad news.

Smokey

29-01-14, 12:06 AM

Looks like an issue resolve. Great work mate! (Should help others with similar issues!)

jonnybriggs69

09-02-14, 01:24 PM

Just wanted to give an update as a lot of people have tried to help with this. My fans are currently working 90% of the time.... So I haven't bothered rocking the boat so to speak. I had taken everything out and then put it back... It seems to be fixing itself!! It isn't 100% but at least I'm not driving up and down the m1 with a window down and sponge in hand!!!

I'll revisit the problem if and when it reoccurs or when it's spring and dry.

It feels like it the problem has either been damp or lack of power because the mor I use it the more it seems to work if that makes sense!?

Thanks all of help so far. I'll keep up to date as and when. And thanks again for your help!!!