My son is now driving !

[Dan1971]

Scary thought but having turned 17 this month, my lad is now taking to the roads.

Unfortunately, as both Mrs C and I have autos, and he's gonna try and get a full licence, the only manual driving he'll get a chance to do will be during the lessons.

So, today I've been looking at a wee runabout manual to have as a learner for him and I've been a bit shocked by a few quotes I had for insurance - in a good way.

I looked at a banger Rover 45 1.6 up for £500 .... Insurance for him as the policyholder with me as a named driver, fully comp, £350 ! Looked up a Mk2 1.6 ZS saloon - the black one currently on the bay of E, fully comp, same quote £350 !

Its with a company called Collingwood and requires a black box to be fitted, via a comparison website.

I'll run it by him and see if he fancies parting with some of the wedge he's been building up.

[stamford]

That quote is surprising. Good to know there are some sensible insurance companies still out there. Time will soon fly when he gets going, next thing you'll know and he'll be changing cars like his dad!

[Dan1971]

I think it's low just because he has to be supervised. I expect it'll be 4 or 5 times that when he passes and will be out on his own.

He won't be anything like me - he a steady lad and his car will be for getting him from A to B and he'll probably keep it until it falls apart. Best I get him in a nice 1.6 ZS to begin with eh ... ;)

[peterzs]

you have to watch the black boxes as they record everything, Time, speed, braking etc. can be used against you in a crash.

Also check the insurance, the grandson had insurance when I was taking him out. All well and good until he passed the test, then the insurance didn't cover him and he had to get insurance as a full driver, not on a provisional driver status!!

Crazy, I had to drive him home in his car or he would not have had insurance from returning to the test centre and having the pass certificate!!

Taught him and the granddaughter in their own cars, both had Clios, easy to drive, nippy and had good visibility.

Good luck to him.

:):):)

[talkingcars]

you have to watch the black boxes as they record everything, Time, speed, braking etc. can be used against you in a crash......

Agreed, we considered a policy using a black box for my daughter just after she qualified but she wouldn't have been able to drive to her college or her Sunday job as this was commuting and it had a 10pm to 6am curfew, so no chance of her staying out late and getting herself home.

[6282tom]

Good to get him going in something on the provisional licence, I learned solely in the instructors car and I'm sure I'd have needed less lessons if I'd have been able to get some extra time behind the wheel in another car.

I agree with the others that a black box seems very restrictive although I've no direct experience.

What about a ZR? I can't imagine the insurance is too bad especially on the 1.4 engines; should get a couple of years out of a half decent one...

[Dan1971]

I'm not fussed about the black box thing - big brother watching etc. a guy at work used to get regular text messages about his son's driving - I like that.

As for the type of car - I was really surprised that the ZS was £350 - same as the Rover 45. There's a fully kitted 1.6 for £1500 on the bay of E that looks really nice and to be fair, I'd like it for the occassional run too.

ZR is also a good call - very nice 1.4 monogram on there at the moment but a bit expensive. We'll see. As it stands just now he's not even got into 3rd gear with the instructor so we are a while away from him getting in there in anything other than the instructors dual control Hyundai i10 !!

[p_b82]

As you say the insurance price will jump a lot when he becomes a full driver, pending on how long your son takes to pass though the potential of a year's no claims in his own right would help.

I think the 1.4 or 1.6 ZR or ZS will jump hugely pricewise - do some comparisons as I know in the past the MG's were "expensive" compared to other cars.

I'd also be a little wary on allowing too much driving without an instructor - the counter argument is that you don't get the reinforcement of all the good habits and it can be much easier to develop bad ones.

Not necessarily bad in terms of actually driving in the real world, but bad as in passing the test - as they are unfortunately quite different as I found out when I failed my first test!

Good luck to him tho :)

[talkingcars]

.....I'd also be a little wary on allowing too much driving without an instructor - the counter argument is that you don't get the reinforcement of all the good habits and it can be much easier to develop bad ones........

As long as you leave the instructor to do the teaching and you just practice it shouldn't do any harm.

I had one pupil who turned up for the lesson before her test slamming it down through the gears to slow down the car. When asked her boyfriend had told her that was how she should do it. I remaindered her that the gears are for going and the brakes are for slowing. She relaxed and sailed through her test.

[p_b82]

As long as you leave the instructor to do the teaching and you just practice it shouldn't do any harm.

I had one pupil who turned up for the lesson before her test slamming it down through the gears to slow down the car. When asked her boyfriend had told her that was how she should do it. I remaindered her that the gears are for going and the brakes are for slowing. She relaxed and sailed through her test.

That's a fair point - Just something to be wary about; passing on bad habits is easily done!

I know I am a "better" driver than I was when I first passed, but I would struggle to pass my test due to my wheel holding/turning habits - I'd have to really think about it and that would reduce my concentration on the outside world; I would probably be assessed to not be careful enough at junctions. (that's what I failed my first test on and I make decisions faster after 18+ years than I did then).

That and I think making use of a bit of rear axle steering is probably frowned upon ;)

I do still however check all my mirrors when pulling off, still check my inside for cyclist when turning left, or the outside when crossing traffic - even when not in the city....
One other bit of advice that I was given by my instructor while I was doing pass plus (so post having my license) was:
"If you have to think about whether there is space to get out then you don't have the space"

As a general rule of thumb I've found that to be the most useful advice in the real world - although pending the car that decision is easier or harder! :trampoline:

The last thing I still adhere to was the advice:
"If you cause another motorist to perform a manoeuvre to avoid you, then you've made a mistake - and braking is a manoeuvre".

[Dan1971]

Top tips is an interesting thing to mention - sure we all have them.

I've done a few courses - 7 full weeks worth over the years - driving to "the system" and how to "make good progress" on two and four wheels.

Biggest and best single learning point - be able to stop within the distance you can see to be clear.

Great fun driving round the twisties but they are where the majority of serious injury accidents take place. Take a corner too fast and being unable to stop in time because of the car pulling out from a junction on the other side, is gonna be sore.

[peterzs]

I got an invite to Williams to look at the cars and they let us loose on some Renault Meganes.

They got us to drive at a polystyrene block wall at 40 mph. hit the brakes and steer round it. To show that with ABS coming on, you can still steer the car.

Normally when you hit the brakes in a emergency you just hold the wheel and hope for the best. It showed that even though the wheels were locked you can still steer the car. Is a bit weird and difficult to get the brain to pull the wheel, but with the ABS it all works and you can still steer out of trouble.

They did suggest trying it in a empty car park.

Was a good lesson, must have worked as a Porsche Cayenne pulled out straight in front of us the other day. Brakes full on and steered to the left or I would have him, arrogant git. Waved an apology, I expect it was because we were in our Punto and he didn't want to wait!!

:):):)

[Supercharged_Z]

late to this my brother had a black box fitted and his insurance got canceled because he braked to hard two days in a row (carrot insurance)

Somebody pulled out on him for one occasion.

I cant say he was the best or worst driver just that it was a utter ball ache

[peterzs]

seems unfair to stop the insurance.

Better than hitting anything.

[Dan1971]

seems unfair to stop the insurance.

Better than hitting anything.

It does - especially as that will no doubt have caused issues as mentioned because the next insurance company will ask the " have you ever had insurance declined or cancelled" question, and up goes the premium !

Harsh world for young people these days - struggle to get car insurance and don't get me started on house prices and them being able to buy a house .....

I know I'm not the oldest on here - not far from though - but my first house was a 2 bed end terrace we bought in about 1995 for £60K. It was just a repossessed new build in an estate near Harlow so nothing special. That house is now £280K. Most mortgages these days require a 25% deposit whereas for me at the time I had to put in just 5%. How the hell is a 22/23 yr old gonna be able to stump up a 25% deposit on that (68K) .... ?.... I get the feeling that my boys, 17 and 14 now, will be at home for a long time unless I bung them a massive wedge from my retirement lump .... All well and good for me (and them) to be able to do that, but not everyone can give their kids a big handout.

[Supercharged_Z]

I know I'm not the oldest on here - not far from though - but my first house was a 2 bed end terrace we bought in about 1995 for £60K. It was just a repossessed new build in an estate near Harlow so nothing special. That house is now £280K. Most mortgages these days require a 25% deposit whereas for me at the time I had to put in just 5%. How the hell is a 22/23 yr old gonna be able to stump up a 25% deposit on that (68K) .... ?.... I get the feeling that my boys, 17 and 14 now, will be at home for a long time unless I bung them a massive wedge from my retirement lump .... All well and good for me (and them) to be able to do that, but not everyone can give their kids a big handout.


I have the same thoughts, unless left a fortune or being helped by family / parents its neigh on impossible for young people in this day and age . :(

[peterzs]

As you say most kids are being pushed out of the house buying market and once renting don't have much chance of getting enough deposit together to put down. Daft, as the rental can be less than what they pay on mortgage, or not much difference.

While cars have gone the other way and granddaughter now has a Juke, nearly new on one of those personal lease schemes. Will knock the bottom out of older second hand car values, as for £150 a month they have nearly new cars. Who wants a 5 year old, or older banger??

Bank of Mum and Dad looks like will be with us for a long time!!

:no::no::no:

[p_b82]

It does - especially as that will no doubt have caused issues as mentioned because the next insurance company will ask the " have you ever had insurance declined or cancelled" question, and up goes the premium !

Harsh world for young people these days - struggle to get car insurance and don't get me started on house prices and them being able to buy a house .....

I know I'm not the oldest on here - not far from though - but my first house was a 2 bed end terrace we bought in about 1995 for £60K. It was just a repossessed new build in an estate near Harlow so nothing special. That house is now £280K. Most mortgages these days require a 25% deposit whereas for me at the time I had to put in just 5%. How the hell is a 22/23 yr old gonna be able to stump up a 25% deposit on that (68K) .... ?.... I get the feeling that my boys, 17 and 14 now, will be at home for a long time unless I bung them a massive wedge from my retirement lump .... All well and good for me (and them) to be able to do that, but not everyone can give their kids a big handout.

cancelled because he used the brakes - that's a joke... I know my buddy has a box fitted and he has penalty clauses if he gets a bad score at renewal time, but I didn't think they'd be able to cancel for avoiding an accident!

If it is in the ToC's then more depth of reading is needed for people I guess :(

I know a bit OT the house stuff, but it is a supply and demand market, and the fact rental income easily covers the mortgage even with new penalties, this problem in house value will rise and rise...

If there was a cap on rental prices fewer properties would be "buy to let" and thus there would be more property available for home owners. But the rules would have to be carefully done, as otherwise students or temp workers would struggle to find places to live.

I think it is also important to consider it is not that practical nowadays to expect as a young 20 something person to buy a house - get on the property ladder with a small flat, and work up... it's what I've done.

[Dan1971]

...

...

I think it is also important to consider it is not that practical nowadays to expect as a young 20 something person to buy a house - get on the property ladder with a small flat, and work up... it's what I've done.

Depends where you are in the country. Everyone acknowledges that (pretty much with everything) you tend to start small and build up. A one bed flat in Harlow on the 9th floor of a block will cost you £130K. £32.5K deposit required.... Compare that to my home town - Hawick in the Scottish borders - and £130K will get you a 3 bed house.

Not easy even getting started is all I'm saying.

[stamford]

Nothing is easy for today's generation, I'm seeing it with my own girls. Still have two at home, one doesn't want to rent, dead money she says and right too. One off to university this year so she'll be studying hard to be a midwife, then she'll look to buy.

When I was their age it seemed so easy to buy a house, gazzumping (sp) being the biggest issue and situation where money would be wasted with no control.

Myself and Kathy have told the girls when we next move house we are signing it over in their names. So in the event of us going into a 'home' they won't lose their inheritance, so we will be well in advance of the 7 year gap. Not too keen using my equity to help them as it would need to be a fair three way offering, would cost me a lot of money plus paying for it over the remaining term of 11 years. Also got a wedding to assist with!

[peterzs]

you need to check into that, re signing the house over. You have to pay a commercial rent back to the girls or IR say it is not a genuine contract. and they can still go for death duties or claw back if you go into a home. All to do with you having the benefit of the house.

[p_b82]

Depends where you are in the country. Everyone acknowledges that (pretty much with everything) you tend to start small and build up. A one bed flat in Harlow on the 9th floor of a block will cost you £130K. £32.5K deposit required.... Compare that to my home town - Hawick in the Scottish borders - and £130K will get you a 3 bed house.

Not easy even getting started is all I'm saying.

Oh I know finding the larger deposit is still not easy, a studio in a poor part of Bristol here is £90k, a 1 bed in "better" parts is £250k (more than my 3bed house is worth)....

I was looking to buy a 90k studio at 24/25 as my start point with a 10-15% deposit (to get the 15% the ZS would have been sold) - but my life took a different turn....

But if there were more properties available to be bought the price would be lower. And I feel it is the rental market that *is* the cause of it. + a little down to life expectancy and changes to lifestyle in older years.

2 friends who are my peers (35-40yo) each bought a small flat as single people in their 20's, they've married and in the time they've known each other, they've kept one flat that they rent out, sold the second flat to buy another to rent out for a larger rental income, and using income (rent + salary) they've now bought a 3rd place to live in. (While they built up the deposit for the 3rd place they rented)

They're stopping two lower income/younger people from getting their foot on the ladder but saw that financially it made more sense to not sell up.

you need to check into that, re signing the house over. You have to pay a commercial rent back to the girls or IR say it is not a genuine contract. and they can still go for death duties or claw back if you go into a home. All to do with you having the benefit of the house.

Yeah you have to pay more than a peppercorn rent nowadays to avoid some of the loopholes I seem to recall - my folks looked at some of the options before.
Think they settled on the trust and the 7 year rule as the "safest" option for them at the time.