Track toy..

[chris25]

Hiya, long time no speak!

I'm currently in the position of buying a track car.

I have 2 options: Puma 1.7, or zs180 saloon.

I know both cars, both have had the cambelt done, and both have been owned from new from someone I know. Both have done over 100k miles. I can have either pretty much for peanuts...

Although they're different motors completely, they're both great track weapons. Great handling out of the box on both rides.

Being a track car, it will get stripped. Has anyone stripped a zs on here? How much weight did you loose? As I know pumas can weigh as little as 700kgs once stripped! Obviously the zs has more power so wont need to loose as much, but the more the merrier tbh.

And I'm pretty sure these things are good for near 200bhp with minor mods correct me if I'm wrong? Bigger airbox off the zt190 with re-routed caf to the front wing, decat?

Any info/photos on anyone tracking a 180 would be excellent. :)

[Dave MGT]

Puma or 180....? thats a no brainer....lol

Your best bet is have a look over on XPF
There are a few of us that have stripped out 180s.
Dave Breen has his down to about 1000kg iirc
Mine is about 1060-1080kg at a guess

[stamford]

I'm pretty sure no one on here can comment on a Puma, but we sure can regarding a 180! As Dave has said there are a few that have stripped their 180s for track use and lost a fair few kilos in the process. Is it still intended for road use, occassional or a commuter? If occassional then you can remove a fair bit and make redundant most items to lose that weight.

[talkingcars]

A less restrictive air filter, the current location suffers badly from heat soak.
Replace the whole exhuast system with Janspeed to eliminate all 3 cats.
Reidy Remap.
Loose 200kg.
You will have a very good track wepaon.

[chris25]

Puma or 180....? thats a no brainer....lol

Your best bet is have a look over on XPF
There are a few of us that have stripped out 180s.
Dave Breen has his down to about 1000kg iirc
Mine is about 1060-1080kg at a guess

Good to know they can be stripped to loose the extra lard as they're about 1250 as standard iirc.

It does seem to be a little bit of a no brainer but I do like the fact that the puma can be as little as 700kg! Some people have gone the whole hog and dumped a focus rs (mk1) engine in there, remapped it would be around 380bhp/ton! I'm not willing to inject that much cash though tbh, it's just a fun track toy more than anything.

[chris25]

I'm pretty sure no one on here can comment on a Puma, but we sure can regarding a 180! As Dave has said there are a few that have stripped their 180s for track use and lost a fair few kilos in the process. Is it still intended for road use, occassional or a commuter? If occassional then you can remove a fair bit and make redundant most items to lose that weight.

Fair comment regards the puma.
It will pretty much be dedicated to track use tbh as I have an audi tt quattro as my main car. It should really stay road legal though

[stamford]

Be prepared to keep the door looms in place if using polycarbonate windows as the ecu needs these in place if using the stock system. Removal of the air-con system will help as will the demister unit and matrix etc. If removing the pump then you'll need to modify the pulley set-up.

[chris25]

And for the record, I'd like it to look just like yours stamford! Laguna splitter, and powdercoat the rims white. It's trophy blue too :)

Ps - anymore photos?

[stamford]

:laugh: thanks!

There's probably some in my album. The white straights have gone and I replaced them with 18" invite Aros. However I wish I kept the wheels now as I am buying another family car and keeping the ZS for track use only. I'm in two minds whether to go the whole hog and strip everything and trailer it.

[starfire039]

Do it!

[Jay-ZS+]

you know it would make sense, still plenty of room for your litter of dogs with the seats gone lol

[dogsbe]

I was just working on my ZS 180 track car budget. I managed to get it on the track for £4000 with partically everything you would want, e.g. coilovers, LSD, tyres, brakes, seats, windows and etc. It even includes a trailer! You could do it a lot cheaper, if you kept it fairly standard.

[Maxxed_Ross]

ZR with a T series Turbo all day long.... cheap and mega fast!

[Dave ZS-X]

ill second that, forget throwing loads of money at nasp mgr engines for tiny returns, throw a turbo lump under the bonnet and build something really fast.
Not sure id go t series though, cheap isnt always the best option ,lol.
Theres always a zr t series turbo for sale on pistonheads, id look there but out of zs and puma ....well pumas are just gay ...end of!

Dave

[Dave MGT]

Thats not exactly a budget trackcar with talk of engine transplants with big powered.....!!! You turbo nutters.....lol

I wouldnt do anything to the kv6 except breather mods and concentrate on suspension/tyres/brakes/diff and plenty of stripping and get it setup well.
Have loads of fun with it. You will be suprised what you can keep up with. Then if you want more power in the future, you will already have the chassis to go with it and havent wasted money on tuning the kv6.

[Jay-ZS+]

Just been out in daves and he knows whats he talking about, was very rapid! still smiling :D

[dogsbe]

ill second that, forget throwing loads of money at nasp mgr engines for tiny returns, throw a turbo lump under the bonnet and build something really fast.
Not sure id go t series though, cheap isnt always the best option ,lol.
Theres always a zr t series turbo for sale on pistonheads, id look there but out of zs and puma ....well pumas are just gay ...end of!

Dave

LOL, we are starting the T16 conversion. Really, this was highly motivated by my partner who wants to be able to pass you! Our car will get heavier with the roll cage and there is nothing we can really do with the KV6 to keep up with the likes you.

[stamford]

It is always best to have just enough power to handle and focus on driving the car in question. Learn the techniques, car control, setting up and driving the pants off it. Then when you can master an underpowered car then go add some power to challenge the real players. Pointless having all the power and not being able to use it. Being underpowered makes you learn track craft to gain where others lose it.

It is very refreshing to see a car go out lap after lap in the hands of what is perceived as a good driver, then hand it over to someone who knows how to drive it. They will wring every last bit out of it and while looking slower they are actually must quicker on a lap.

I am in two minds as to what to do with mine. Part of me says circuit racing, part of me says ovals but the wife says it'll get mashed! She is right btw, and I would like to do rallycross as it is both of what I have done before. Only sticking point is depending upon what I do will dictate if I can use the KV6 or change for something totally different and convert to rwd? If I go the loose route then rwd is better, but something inside tells me to keep it as a stock ZS set-up.

[Jay-ZS+]

RWD! now that does sound like a project! No wonder your so busy ,You bring it on yourself Mick :laugh:

[Dan1971]

....well pumas are just gay ...end of!

Dave


To the point ..... +1

[stamford]

RWD! now that does sound like a project! No wonder your so busy ,You bring it on yourself Mick :laugh:

Wouldn't be the first time!

V8 into Chevette works, so does V8 into Bedford CF350! I would consider a 4wd ZS but they are not allowed, bloody rule book! :crazy:

[Jay-ZS+]

I belive someone has done a 4wd bubble conversion! thats a strange one!

[dogsbe]

It is always best to have just enough power to handle and focus on driving the car in question. Learn the techniques, car control, setting up and driving the pants off it. Then when you can master an underpowered car then go add some power to challenge the real players. Pointless having all the power and not being able to use it. Being underpowered makes you learn track craft to gain where others lose it.

I completely agree with you. At present, I am not looking for more power. The car is not right handling wise. I fear that shoving something insane without first sorting out the handling, I will get totally lost. The big push for more power is from my partner. He was not impressed with the power. It was more about the thrill factor for him and not so much about lap times. I think he was expecting something like the space shuttle.

I did discuss driving lessons as the best course of action. I'm no Michael Schumacher, but did go through an entire week long driving school and had futher lessons. I forgot most things, but I think I still retained a feeling for cars and race line. It is a bit like riding a bike. After a bit of trial and error, I can get into ryhthem. If that makes any sense?

I agreed to the T16 conversion because I dont feel that the KV6 would serve our needs in the long run. We have the opportunity to do it now, so we are taking it. Saying that, I have no immeadiate plans to actually harness the power. I will keep it standard until we start growing out of the car. I have already grown out of my ZR TD (157 bhp). It is good for training, but I very much wanted a lot more.

Well, that is atleast my logic.

[Ritchy]

i want to make my zed rwd or 4wd after i get my next car, get ma dad to do the gearbox side:P

[stamford]

Racing school refreshers are very good, they rid you of bad habits! You think you are okay but in reality you are shoite! It is surprising how a change in line, braking point, turn in etc can change a from a good lap into a fast lap. There are times when the car does not need to be turned in, it will do it itself depending upon the corner, camber and set-up etc. I was shown a tip at Brands a few years back in their track 180's long before I bought one. I was surprised at how the instructor took the wheel off me going through Clearways into Clark Curve and it drove itself around, I thought we would go off as there didn't appear to be enough lock.

If I were you I would stick with the KV6 and tune it to a set budget and then be at one with the car, once you have collated the track data and happy with it with regards set-up and consistent lap times then go for more power be it a transplant etc, this will require further setting up as the balance will have changed.

[dogsbe]

I very much take your points, but I dont think it makes economic sense to invest in the KV6 if the future plan is a T16. Ok, if I had to shell out the money for conversion, this would be the last thing on the agenda. However, we are in an ideal situation to do the conversion, which will cost the partnership nothing! So it really does make financial sense to do it now.

I have not looked into driving schools, but I am happy with my instructor. God, I wish I can drive like him! However, I really dont chase lap times, I'm just go to track days to have a good day out. I just like to see some steady improvements, particularly in the consistency of my driving.

[stamford]

There will come a time, and I am talking a very short window here! that you will be chasing lap times! It is the nature of the beast, once you start playing around on track you will look to make it faster and by doing so will use lap times as your personal benchmark.

There is a saying 'better to have taken part and lost, than not to have taken part at all' true in some cases but in reality, bullshit! We all want to win no matter what, that is why we do it! :D I didn't race to make up the numbers I wanted to win!

[dogsbe]

There will come a time, and I am talking a very short window here! that you will be chasing lap times! It is the nature of the beast, once you start playing around on track you will look to make it faster and by doing so will use lap times as your personal benchmark.

There is a saying 'better to have taken part and lost, than not to have taken part at all' true in some cases but in reality, bullshit! We all want to win no matter what, that is why we do it! :D I didn't race to make up the numbers I wanted to win!

I think you might be right, once I fit a video camera in and have the capacity to time I might start chasing times. So, my attitude might be reflective of capacity. I just tend to try to pass certain cars. I also check my speeds at specific points on the laps. I always try to do a bit better. I also get rather pissed off if somebody passes me.

[stamford]

I think you might be right, once I fit a video camera in and have the capacity to time I might start chasing times. So, my attitude might be reflective of capacity. I just tend to try to pass certain cars. I also check my speeds at specific points on the laps. I always try to do a bit better. I also get rather pissed off if somebody passes me.

That sounds about right :D

We can't help ourselves, I bet you get annoyed when passed on a motorway ;)

[dogsbe]

That sounds about right :D

We can't help ourselves, I bet you get annoyed when passed on a motorway ;)

Lol, no not really. I tend drive within the enforced speed limit. The nice thing about going to track days is that nothing you can do on the road even comes close to what you can do on the track. I really dont see the point of high performance car for just fast road. In fact, I have been steadly detuning my MG ZR because I dont use it on the track anymore. Further, I will soon sell it to buy something a little bigger, so I can tow the ZS.