Have to say I agree with all the above, I am aware of exactly what the ZS is and its limitations. It is of a different era compared to latest generation hot hatches so I expect them to show me a clean pair of heels:)

Also going from a ZS with breathing mods to a standard one alway has me thinking how much they feel strangled so that as we know is easy to rectify.

Cards on the table - I've been looking at the new breed of hot hatches up to a year old.

208 GTi - Fiesta ST 180 - Polo GTi - Fabia VRS - Clio sport.

All of them are around 180 brake - but none any better just under 7 seconds 0-60. Where they do seem better is in terms of refinement, fuel efficiency and co2.

A Polo GTi's quoted worst fuel consumption is 38.

But ....

All of the above - bar the Fabia - are 15K + That is 10 times the cost of my ZS.

And where we wonder about how ours compare against normal looking maotors, I've been keeping an eye on the MG6s at Motorpoint. On their site I've come across a Focus Zetec, pretty average looking, but it has a 1.6 ecotec turbo 180bhp engine fitted !

Its a 14yr old design (at least) of course it will have been superseded. For reference the nokia 3210 was released the year after the zs was, wouldn't expect that to keep up with the latest generation of mobiles!

I know its a totally different industy but automotive engineering has come on a long way since the zs was designed (or rehashed). Considering that manufactures are having to design with economy in mind power is not the be all and end all. Yet still modern cars have the upper hand on performance whilst still delivering decent mpg (40-50+) compared to the mid 20's of the zs. In truth it does well to put up a decent fight at all.

^^^ This is true, the underpinnings of the zs are nearly 20 years old, times change and things move on.

Not us stuck with our old rovers though!

This is true:soldiers:

I remember when Dave put the vag unit in his ZS to start with before he then tweaked it and went for even more bhp. that thing was a monster and will be again when Paul finishes his rebuild of it.

at the time 2.5+V6's were the top of the range and no-one used turbo's as the noise and response is better from nasp, and that is what people wanted. if the supercharger kit had been properly developed by the factory from the off, the ZS would have had 250bhp or so and the comments about it being slow by modern standards would be irrelevant. IMO

It is just one of them things, even with the amount i have spent on the ZS it is still less than a new BMW would be in 325 upwards spec, and that is including the original purchase price of the ZS back in 2004 (9months old ex dealer car) - mine has had it's 10th birthday this year and next april I will have had it for 10years.

there are not many cars built at around the same time that have got quite such an enthusiastic following still, which say as lot to me about the cars.... *shrug*

If I had not decided I wanted a money pit of a project diesel, i would have got a 180, when i was able to afford to run and insure it - now I could i have gone too far with the Diesel to change, and i can't justify a 180 for pottling around the city!

I worked for VW/Audi when the first A3 came out as a driver so I got to drive a lot of VAG products - I feel that the ZS compares well with the cars back then, indeed I could have had a Golf and then a Passat but opted for a maestro and then montego as I preferred the way they drove. Sure- some of the sporty audis were fast but as an all round car I'd rather have my ZS any day.

I've recently changed to a mk2 vRS and wish MG still made cars like the ZS.
While the vRS is still a quick car, it's just not got the same appeal. Saying that, with a dark grey interior and bright green lighting for the radio my first thought was it would have been gorgeous in an x-power branded limited edition.
I didn't think it was worth selling the the 180, so it's sorned till next year awaiting dad's retirement. Then he'll have fun.

Wasn't comparing the Audi to the MG, i was merely stating that it's the difference between a fast car and an average car. And i'm guessing you havn't driven a modern van? A 1.7tdi Vauxhall Combi or Astramax will easily keep up with or beat a ZR105/ZS110. And my Merc Vito will blast them into the middle of next week. People, honestly you need to realise MG's are just NOT fast, why do you think so many of us resort to tuning the damn things - it's to give us a fleeting chance of keeping up with other cars!!!

kev mocho if you are not too impressed you have a bit of a problem going on there with that car? My old one had a de cat, induction and a re map and was 194bhp on the printout.

As for Rx8's I had a ding dong with one early one morning up a mile or so stretch of motorway and it was embarassing for him.

Don't want to open that old can of worms, but also had a second gear off roundabout tussle with a ctr. Although he was with me for a little while he too was done after a quarter of a mile.

Ive no problem with the car tcb180 just stating it wasnt as quick as some cars which surprised me a little,it doesnt have any running issues at all all im stating its a standard 180 with no modifications at the min,ive had three 180s before this one and this has been the first standard one i have bought and felt a little surprised how certain cars easily kept up with it,But on a good note its getting a sports cat and full stainless tomorrow so hopefully should see some difference then,just what mods to do after that i believe the standard filter set up is very restrictive? was going to go for a panel filter upgrade but probs not the best idea?,I drove two audi tt automatics this week 2.0t i think they are a very quick car id love one if i could afford one but quite happily stick to my 180

Dont waste money on a panel filter. Wait until you can do an inner wing job. Mine was a carbon enclosed cannister vertically behind the radiator with some stainless and silicone pipework out into the inner wing. Cost me around £150 to have it made and fitted but if you got bits could make it up yourself a lot cheaper.

That is best initial mods and was enough for me as didn't want to go into cams and mannis tbh.

I keep threatening to do it and I’m almost ready, I have a Honda Accrord 2.4 bottom end and a Civic type R K20 head available, throw in a set of new pistons (11.5.1) then install into a ZS.
300 NASP power with a power band to die for, reliable, fast, and economical if you want it to be.
The KV6 in the ZS was quite something back in its day but realistically dated if you’re comparing it to today’s modern diesels. My last Merc was a 3 ltr single turbo making about 280bhp with 400ft/lbs and my mates ZS couldn’t keep with it, on a track day depending which track it may be a different story.
Most of us are making comparison tests on the road not the track so real world, I loved my Z but it was almost impossible to extract any meaningful power at a reasonable price. 4 pot turbo’s is the way forward if you want cheap reliable gains and a ballistic car rather than something quicker than you have.

I assume at the fly and calculated?

Any idea what whp it was?

Have seem 145whp equated to 175+fly hp, but in my mind thats just dreaming.

At least with whp there is something slightly comparable




sounds like you are doing what the honda britcar boys did?

If so, they based their build on an article written by 2 leicestershire lads which was published in the states as a theory exercise.
The britcar build was 30hp down on what it could/should have made
Having spoke to the chaps and seen their work, the full 330hp is possible if done properly and with attention to detail.

I reckon 145 whp is closer to 170 at the fly +0.

Was already involved with a 340bhp build last year and that engine has been transplanted and slightly de-tuned mild road car, 300bhp is very easy to achieve you can make an easy 260+ with a stock K24 bottom and just a K20 head, the jump from 260 upwards is cams and valve train, pistons and rods and light porting work.
The replacement for that build is a full out 400bbhp k2.6 block still 4 pot but with sleeved block and over bored and stroked, will need to run dry sump with the largest Kinsler ITB’s and on ethanol it will make a lot more power than 400+, big spec engine and purely for racing.
What I have in mind is cheap and simple, reliable and 300bhp NAP is more than a match for any FWD turbo car on the road today, the plus side will be the torque at 1800 rpm to 9000rpm.
Doing it in a ZS shell will be a nice touch, Lotus Elsie boys have been doing this conversion as have the Honda crowd for years.

This was the old car on a slowish run (far land blue Honda)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPjKry_Ukew

Put that engine into a ZS quiet it down a tad though

zs was quick enough in its day, crikey i used to play with m3 csl's and 911 gt3's on track with just 210 bhp, that was after a good few grand thrown at it mind ,lol.

I like dreaming too! But that just proves what i said, to at least have a chance a ZS needs money thrown at it to tune it up. Sorry but there's no way on earth a ZS with 210 bhp would even get in the shadow of a GT3 or CSL. Sometimes i feel ashamed to be a ZS owner as all the other owners seem to have ridiculous delusions of grandeur!! Maybe why i've been off the site for 2 years, couldn't put up with the bull sh!t !!!

That's because there was nothing in the car. Quite literally just a seat.

On topic of zs's engines have moved on again, now you have 1.4 supercharged turbo cars with 200bhp and tuneable.

You also have diesels making way more power than the accepted 140 odd back in 2001

Think you'll find the car was a bit special - he mentions that - and the guy's spent some time driving on a track. Put a decent driver in a decent car and it'll waste a crap driver in a very fast car.

And - you know what - really - 2 years - well no-one missed you, and if you're just gonna throw insults around on the site at members just bog off back to wherever you've been trolling around for the last little while and don't bother coming back.....

and it's post like this that need a "like" button.

Most definately, dissapear for two years, not missed, comes back and almost straight away starts moaning and sniffling........yet still has a ZS *yawn*.

The ZS (KV6) does need money throwing at it, and 'till to date, a lot of money for not that much power.

A GT3, CSL, carrera 2 will make mince meat of a ZS if driven by the same driver, or drivers with the same ability

It was very lightweight and the ZS does handle well, and driven well and can surprise many drivers of faster cars driven averagely, but this surprise is mainly corner entry/exit speed which many people confuse wrongly with power.
On the straights, the faster cars without doubt have the advantage.



Very True

?

The fact is,
Put a ZS against a like for like car that is as well tuned or setup as the ZS, and you will find that the ZS has no advantage.

track/race ZS vs 318 compact cup car?
track/race ZS vs clio track/race car?
the nasp mini cooper race cars are on par if not quicker than a ZS race car, and they are only 1600cc!
...
So, you learn how to drive your tuned ZS that you've thrown 5 grand at (enough to build a race ZS), a further 500+ in driver tuition/coaching and a few thou on test days etc, and you find that the 1.6 mini is just as quick, and have the edge over you in certain corners and you come to the conclusion that all things in perspective, the ZS is good, but perhaps not as good as our rose tinted spectacles made it appear to be?

The fact is, that all things being equal, the ZS does not make mince meat of all that we think it does.

The op was on about his standard 180 not being up to modern cars and it's developed since there into a session comparing track capability.

In it's day the ZS was well thought of as a driver's car. Now it's old - there are better things out there. No-one's arguing.

But - this is a ZS site - for people who when faced with a choice of car to buy based on whatever criteria they had at the time chose a ZS. If we were claiming our cars are 0-60 in under 5 secs and winning the traffic light grand prix against supercars - uber reliable - cumfy as a big squidgy sofa on a Sunday afternoon - then we'd be mistaken, and very sad indeed.

There are members who have invested in their cars for the track and tell us that they go well. There are members who have spent many hours honing their skills on the track to become decent drivers in that environment.

So we have rose tinted spectacles ...... So what ? :yoji:

Love my ZS.


:clap::clap::clap::clap:

Doing my none Jeremy Clarkson bit now.

It's not all about the power but the feel and control of the car and that sound of the V6.

& what else can you get for the same price as a ZS that gives you that feeling.

Nice! So most of us are up with the fairies then? So we are all tarred with the same brush? I enjoy mine still even though I know it is getting on and my Vectra CDTi is as nippy but it is more to do with the feeling it brings. If you feel like that then why bother coming back taking a pop at enthusiasts and slating owners. If any of us felt the same we would sell up and move on. No need for the strong words, 'when the flag drops, the bullsh!t stops'.

Sound of the Derv for me!!!!

:clap::clap::clap:

Mines nicknamed the tractor :laugh:

I'll add my opinion now, I own two cars a very very modified Vectra Sri C with a lot done to the engine, exhaust and suspension, it'll hold it's own against the ZS in the twisty stuff easily, also it's got all the mod cons and I love it. But and a Big but it's just not the ZS I only drive the zs of a weekend now and I look forward to it and enjoy it, I love the sound of the V6, the handling and Yes the surprise when bigger and much better cars get a surprise.

So I know it's a old car and it's not the best, but when I drive it I feel one with the car, something I miss in the Vectra.

[QUOTE=Mark S;323430]I assume at the fly and calculated?

Any idea what whp it was?

Have seem 145whp equated to 175+fly hp, but in my mind thats just dreaming.

At least with whp there is something slightly comparable



front wheel drives cars should have power looses of about 10-15% through transmission, 145 is more like 170 at flywheel if youre lucky. True though is the only figure that counts is whp. ive seen rollers say 145whp is 190 at the fly! with those power looses through your gearbox it would melt!

still maintain that the zs is an extremely capable track toy and more than a match for any modern hatch on the track driver depending. yes ingear speed isnt as good, yes 0-60 times might be behind on some. But they cost alot more have more power and still done leave the zs for dead. In all the track days ive done i have still never been overtaken by a single hot hatch. yes mine is light and has a few mods (not much; lsd, decat, itg, coilovers) its well looked after and also has no back seats and makes 173 bhp at the wheels. Ive done a back to back test against friends astras, golfs, clios, civics, leons etc, and havent been beaten. Im not making out it can beat a supercars, but it surprises everyone who sits in it and ive had so many comments once ive got back into pit lanes from people in "faster" cars which ive overtaken. I love it, yes it has it downfalls but it isnt slow depending on what your idea of fast is. There is so much to put into the calculations on what is fast and how to compare it to another car, gear ratios, power to weight, transmission looses, torque grafts, driver skill, the tyres it has, the type of track/road youre on. I love it, yes i have rose tinted glasses, but havent been proven wrong on track yet, and even if i did, i would look at the cost and see the other car probably cost 10 times more

I still really like my zs it must be something keeps bringing me back to them,Im on my fourth 180 now,and like other guys have said on here there's not much you can buy for the money of our zs's that look anywhere near as nice mk1 or mk2 Im think they stand out along side a lot of cars in the same age band,I cant tell what it is but didnt want to part my 2k in the same garage i bought my 180 with a poxy 1.2 54 reg standard fiesta for 2k or the mk2 180?it won hands down ;)And the reason the insiginia pulled away as i found yesterday with steve one of my vis's are down which i didnt know but will soon be fixed ;)

And see what you started ..... :thumbsup::clap2:

I couldn't agree more, a very well balanced and honest opinion on the ZS.

Just to add to that, the bog std 180 is a capable car, and even without any mods a good track car also.
There is a guy I know of who has been racing a bog std ZS this season with nothing/little more than a set of slicks thrown on, and its done alright

Started one hell of a thread Dan :clap: just a shame some ppl had to put a few insultive things as comments considering we all get along on here quite well to be fair and help each other out which is what these car forums are all about :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Only to be expected. Best left ignored perhaps?

I’m going to go out on a limb here, this video is Dave chasing down George on track, you can clearly see the shortcomings of the stock ZS180, even though George was on 888’s and upgrade brakes the car was at its limit. Dave was running cams and manifolds and an ATB diff and reeled George in very quickly, within ½ a lap, in reality this can’t be down to outright power as Dave was at about 200bhp.
I went passenger with George the same day and he is a very capable driver and drove the car to the absolute limit, however, if the drivers swapped cars the results would have remained the same, the stock ZS is hampered due to its overall weight and handling, suspension isn’t particularly compliant at the upper limits as you can see from George’s car, body roll on entry and weight transfer on exit. This video shows how to exploit a ZS with 200bhp, weight reduction, power delivery and decent suspension coupled with improved braking.
If you surf Dave’s video’s for the VAG transplant you see this at another level, 100bhp more and well over 100 ft/lbs torque but the car handles perfectly on the same chassis set-up with the inclusion of a roll cage, there is a weight reduction over the front wheels due to the lighter engine and it’s placement in the bay.

I think this provides a fair comparison, also, just a foot note, I was on an XPOWER track day when Matt C was driving his BMW 330 diesel (think it was Matt) it was torrential rain and that BMW ran rings around most things out on track that day so don’t be too harsh on the lad :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FakRj...P6tOW_qmvL23yw

Well on the mention of track days....My last trip round Brands, I caught up with then round Graham Hill bend just breezed past a TVR Griffith 500..............I say no more.

Lets just say, what would you buy if money no object??? Spitfire or a Eurofighter?????
The Spit is outclassed, but it looks better, sounds BETTER and boy does it have soul........

Very Very True. What a way you have with words.