Advice pls- Being threated with Court action over Ebay sale.
 

Sold my bike a couple of weeks ago.

After spending ages rebuilding it, I didnt ride it much after breaking my wrist so stuck it on ebay for £1950 which was less than Ive spent out on it.

Its a long story so here goes - Basically a guy contacted me through ebay offering me £1800 we I agreed on. He sent me a deposit via paypal without seeing it, didnt buy it through ebay either. When he can and view it there were a few issues with the paint work so we agree to knock £50 off the price. I told him it was smoking and thought it was overfueling. After looking it over and taking it out for a test ride for 10 mins or so he said he was very happy with it and he left. I threw alot of accessories, oils and bits in the boot of his wifes car. Then off they went.

Got an email later to say he had broken down, it had overheated and the fan wasnt running. Also said it was slipping out of 6th. After a load of updates via email he said that he had got home said he still 'thought the bike was stonking'. He also added that believed the smoke was infact oil passing through the valve stems.

So at this point I felt real bad that he had broken down and it was having issues so refunded him £75 to cover his troubles. Which he accepted and was happy.

The following day he emailed me to say he wasnt happy and had started stripping the bike down and found aload of problems:
-Entire front fairing was knacked and needed replacing,
-6th gear was totally shot,
-Rear shock was corroded
-Aload of wiring was damaged where it overheated

He said 'I know you have down loads of work to it, which is obvious by the receipts, and the fact your a decent bloke. I still have your original ebay listing, and the receipt on paypal. The listing describes the bike is a condidtion that it is not. As you can see by all the points, rectifying all these issues is going to cost a fortune. At this stage I am unsure as to what action I need to take.

Sorry mate I know you have been really helpful, but the bike in its current state is a lemon, and needs a hell of allot of work to get it to the condition it was described as, and how i thought I bought it. I think it is because its been stood around for so long.'


These are problems that I had no idea existed when I had it but as a good will gester I offered him a refund of £500 which he agreed on and I sent via paypal with a message 'Refund to cover problems with VFR400' now meaning Ive lost out massively.

Anyway today he emails me again saying
-The motor needs a complete rebuild
-2 front cylinders have low compression
-Gearbox is trashed

Said 'The bike should have been sold as spares. I'm thinking of going to small claims court as the item was not sold as described. This isn't a dig at you but you can see my posision. I have a bike bought in good faith that isn't worth more than about 800 pounds! I can see two options here really mate. Either i return the bike to you, or you offer me a further refund.'

He keeps claiming the bike was not as described well heres the ebay ad:
1990 Honda VFR400 NC30 Newly rebuild, Tyga kit, JHA Exhaust...Stunning!!
Firstly I've got to say I'm gutted its come to this, I bought this bike last year and spend most of that summer stripping it right down and rebuilding it from the frame up. I dread to calculate how much I have spent out on it but unfortunately I need to free up some cash as moving to a bigger place so the bike has to go.

Its a 1990 VFR400 NC30, It has been fitted with the TYGA bodykit that makes it look the 2006 RCV. By looking at it there is no way you would know it was a 1990 bike, even had the MOT tester confused when he looked the Reg up on his database!I
Mot'd till 20th September - Flew through the last MOT with no advisories. The mileage on MOT states 11 however this is due to the digital dash fitted, Previous mileage recorded was 65,000km (Japanese import) which converts to around 41,000 miles.
Tax runs out in August - costs only £35 for 12 months
Cheap to insure.
33bhp for an A2 license restrictors supplied but not fitted
Sounds amazing the V4 engine and the full JHA exhaust (very Rare) go beautifully together.
The bike has been painted with an Audi white colour and looks stunning in the sunlight.
The bike has been DATA TAGGED
I have one key for the bike and two fobs for the Cyclone V2 security system and remote start.
Will come with a HAWK Oxford cover, rear paddock stand and Oxford Titan Disc lock if wanted.


Here is a list of some of the parts that have been fitted:

Engine
A complete gasket set including valve stem seals
Shims checked and replaced, valves lapped in.
EBC Clutch supplied by Rick Oliver.
D.I.D 525 Chain,
15t Front Sprocket
40t Rear Sprocket
Carb Rubbers and O-rings
Fuel Tap
Spark plugs,
Oil Filter
Air Filter
Silkolene Super 4 10W40 Oil

Bodywork:
Tyga Body kit, with smoked screen
Newly painted Fairings & Tank
Full JHA Stainless shotgun style exhaust, Repacked with new baffles and New carbon Fibre Sleeves - These are very rare and have had a number of people ask if I wanted to sell separately but they sound awesome
Has SES rear sets


Wheels & Suspension:
Brand new Bridgestone Battlax BT-90 rear tyre,
Part worn BT-90 front has loads of miles left in it.
Refurbished Rear hub
Rick Oliver Fork spring upgrade
New Front wheel bearings

Brakes:
Brakes painted blue and refurbed with new seals and bleed nipples
New brake discs and pads, front and rear.
Stainless steel hoses
5.1 Brake Fluid

Electrics:
Cyclone V2 Security System fitted with remote start.
Koso Digital Dash, Cellophane still on screen!
Brand new Varta Battery fitted this week
Indicator Relay
Stator/ Generator
New Regulator/Rectifier


The bad bits:
There is a crack on one side of the fairings where I managed to slip over having just done an oil change and ended up with the bike on top of me, very embarrassing! Also some damage to the clutch cable from when its been dropped previously. Both pictured.
Have had the bike tested on a Dyno and it made resonable power (54bhp) but was running very rich, Imagine the carbs need looking at once the fuelling it correct should hit around 60bhp. Dyno pictured
The speedo may need checking as uses a mechanical to digital converter so the setting may need altering to calibrate. I have set it up but may need fine tuning. There is a guide here http://www.digital-speedos.co.uk/how...nsor-288-p.asp

Any questions or to view the bike just ask. Located in Bristol, buyer picks up.

Now I have described the bike as Newly rebuild, which it was and I gave him reciepts for all the bits Id bought. I didnt say it had had a total engine rebuild all the bits bought for the engine are listed. I said it looked stunning not that it was stunning although to be fare it was in my opinion. I had no idea of the issues he is saying it has. If it had them when I had it would have sorted them out.

As I see it he didnt buy the bike through ebay, he came and viewed the bike, tested it was happy and rode off. Was a private sale and so sold as seen. To be honest I dont feel I should have given him any refunds at all but was a good will gesture. I still have all email correspondence and paypal receipts for most of the bits I bought for the bike, along with pictures of the work.

Its a long old read but know there are some wise heads on here.

Magic words mate, "Sold as Seen" He was happy at point of purchase and your not a dealer. He hasnt got ****.

So, as I read it, he has got the bike for £1150 after the money that you've already refunded him, my opinion is that he's a chancer trying to take advantage of the fact you're a decent bloke, also as he has said the bike in his opinion is worth £800, he is going to take you to court for £350, I'd be very tempted to call his bluff about going to court.

Additionally you might want to point out to him that he bought it outside ebay so quoting the ebay listing is irrelevant.

Yer thats how I see it, maybe there are issues with it he seemed a decent guy, and if there are I feel bad for him hence the refund. When he accepted that I saw it as draw a line under it and move on.

As said it was sold as seen and looking back I dont think the actual wording of the ebay ad is wrong. How it reads into it was upto him.

He hasnt a leg to stand on :-)
Go to court and watch him flop and have to pay court fee's!
He drove the bike away after an inspection so whether or not the ad is correct/incorrect its irrelevant :-/
Call his bluff mate, youv'e been far to good as it is!!

Did you both sign a receipt saying that the bike was sold as seen.

No he was in a rush to get off so didnt give him receipt at all.

bike
 

1. wasn't sold through ebay - ebay ad is worthless?
2. he test drove and looked over bike , was also happy todo deal. - would make it sold as seen i presume? was this on reciept?
3. you have refunded a sum which he was happy to accept - i would have left it there.
4. you further refunded £500 -which he was also happy to accept. ( again above and beyond what most would have done )
5. he has stripped bike himself? if so is he a qualified tech? has he damaged it taking it apart?
6. private sale. sold as seen will apply as he was happy to drive it away.
7. let him try small claims court , if i were judging this you are seen to have done plenty to help and he was happy with the first refund which should have been case closed.

I'm no lawyer / judge but surely he not got a leg to stand on.

in my opinion dont offer any more refunds and wait to see what happens if anything. keep all the emails he has sent you as evidence he was happy.

Relax and good luck.

That's a shame, something about your buyer makes me wonder if he's pulled this stunt before, it all seems very contrived to me, telling you first that it broke down, and then the subsequent messages with ever increasing problems, I might be wrong but it smells odd to me.

Blimey mate, does he want you to bend over for him as well? Just how do you know that all these problems are in fact true, who is to say that he hasn't swapped any internals over and is now trying to get his money back.

Tell him to politely do one!!!!

In a similar story, Kat and I sold her Micra '06 on 32,000 miles. I passed its MOT but we was leaking oil but no idea where it was going! Arnold Shark wanted stupid money to replace engine so sold on eBay as an auction.

Ended up with £2000 from a garage down south which was more than expected but it was a mechanic so he obviously though he could fix it easy and resell it.

He was wrong! He got a guy to collect it and drive it down south, we gave him oil as it needed topped up every 150 miles. It supposedly broker down and was smoking at exhaust (never did with us) gave the threats of legal action as not as described and said it was obviously a dodgy garage that passed its mot (he didn't know it was AC) he demanded £250 to cover his loss too.

I emailed him, copied my description on eBay, explained who did the MOT which was where it was also regularly serviced and told him he had no chance of any money. If he wanted to go to court, he was welcome to but he had I chance.

Never heard from him again!

(used the money to buy the mk2 110 :) )

Caveat emptor. 'Nuff said.

Jay i would let him try and take you to court as you did not complete a sale through ebay so that is irrelevant as other have said and what is it say the break down is not his fault when he has been working it or quite possibly been riding it like a tw*t and that is why it is now broken and him trying to recoup cost so i would tell him to take you to court and try and get money out of you because once that bike is sold you have no interest in the bike and as soon as he agrees to have it ...its his problem

just my thoughts but i think most of the forum is having the same thoughts

Honestly reading that hes realised you keep pying up, its a private sale, you dont need to provide warranty, as said he wont win at court but point out to him you have been more than fair up till now.

If in doubt contact citizens advice

Dont know much about motor bikes, but the way I see it, the guy took it out for a test drive, 10 mins or so, looked it over and must have been happy with it.

Whose to say he hasnt over revved it all the way home, dropped it, missed gear change etc. Did it have a rev limiter, even if it did he could have bounced it up there.

It must have been to a good standard to get the MoT, when you had it on the rolling road did you have any problems with over heating or the 6th gear slipping???

Think you have been more than fair with the guy. If it did go to court, think you will be able to say that you gave him a refund and he accepted it. He could have rejected it and tried for more cash or return the bike.

Was your partner with you when you were selling the bike, if she heard you say to him, sold as seen, would help your argument, if it goes that far.

Not a great fan of Citizens Advice Bureau, but might be worth having a chat with them.

Shame you got the hassle Jay, as Petet16 says sounds like he is trying it on.

Just had a look at a bike forum and found this:-

http://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=3231289

Think they point out that as it was a private sale, he had the chance to look it over and accepted it, down to him. Same as your guy.

I'd have told him to forget it straight away mate to be honest... And after he's stripped it he can F right off.

You've been more than fair. A well constructed email along the lines of - the bike was sold to you in circumstances where you were made aware of the history and I have not knowingly mislead you, or described anything knowingly incorrectly. I will hear nothing more on the matter and if you wish to pursue me through a small claim court you have that right.....

It was a private sale and he checked it over before hand. You have gone way beyond by giving him refunds which most people wouldn't have done. I guess he thinks you are a push over - unfortunatly by buying outside ebay he hasn't a leg to stand on and then he shot himself in the foot by dismantaling the thing, he should have taken it to a proper engineer - ask him to return it to you in the state it was when he took it or to do one.

Good link that Peter, I like the bloke who bought the bike whinging about signing the sold as seen receipt, I've always done that when buying and selling privately, in fact if a buyer wouldn't sign a receipt I'd give him his money back and cancel the sale to avoid the problem which Jay now has.

I am suspicious about the buyer being in too much of a rush to leave without a receipt as well.

Makes you wonder, be interesting to see if he keeps it or it suddenly pops back on ebay at the £2,000 mark!!!!

Id stick to my guns too, private sale, sold as seen. Hes winding you up.....Stand your ground and dont give in.

Also for a vehicle you must also always do receipts signed by buyer and seller as well as doing the V5. If the buyer is in a hurry - tough, they'll have to walk.

I normally prepare one beforehand - and it always clearly says "private sale, sold as seen, no warrantee", cover ones backside as they say.

Cheers for all the advice guys, Ive put together a long email that documents everything but think I'm going to sleep on it and read it through tomorrow.

dont worry about it, as ssaid he has probably done the same before and people get scared by court action, but id call his bluff on it tbh

Golden rule is not to enter into any protracted correspondence with him as you could inadvertently give him ammo to use. Having recently helped out with someone else's litigation you do have to tread carefully it's amazing what can be thrown back at you! I would send him an e-mail pointing out that it was a private sale therefore no warranty is applicable, and that he had adequate time to inspect the bike and he should have sought a qualified opinion if he wasn't happy. You then need to end it by stating that you now consider the matter closed and you will not enter into any further correspondence. If he then sends anything else keep it however don't reply.

I have had a similar situation with a BMW I sold a few years ago which broke down with a failed alternator on the blokes way home. I agreed to pay half of the cost of the part out of good will and sent him a cheque with a letter stating just that.

Anyway good luck, let us know what happens!

Thanks for all the advice guys appreciate the support :)
Have sent him an email basically along the lines of what James and Dan suggested.

Given the fact that he can barely spell or use basic English which when on a computer these days is inexcusable as it bloody tells you when you spell something wrong (my gf is heavily dyslexic but uses the spellchecker on the pc and is just fine) would straight away put me off him and the fact you've already willingly given away a load of money he's just trying his luck.

Tell him where to stick it, sold as seen, end of.

The key point here is that he overheated it and now trying to take advantage of you for covering the expences of engine rebuild. He knows he can't cancel the deal now that damage is done so scaring you with court is his only option. As others have said you have more than enough to call his bluff imo...

TBH you have been more than fair - i would not have refunded him £500 at all but maybe offered him a couple of hundred only.

It sounds to me like he thrashed the nuts off it and fell off it!

Good luck with it - but i would wipe my hands of it as of now and do not correspond with him again.

Man u have been more than accommodating, personally I would never of given anything past the £75. I have sold loads of bikes and cars but always always get a signed receipt !!!
Sold as seen and tested!

The moment he started to take it apart was total game over.

IMO stick arm out , twist wrist and extend middle finger c u in court!

Paul