Not sure...
 

As I said, not sure if this is worth a thread, but had anyone noticed how downsized-engined, to heavy-to slow most of the cars are nowadays? Horsepower they have, but still no performance...

For example, new focus, 1.6 ltr tdci, 115 hp, comparing with zs derv, same bhp but smaller boot, almost 300 kilograms heavier and 0-60 in 10,9 sec?

Not to mention vw and similar class saloons, 140+ bhp, 2 ltr dervs and still over 10 sec to 60 and barely 120 mph... Beemers set aside as always but so many out there. What's the point? Can't they make them just normal anymore?

One good thing imho, the upcoming KERS system, first adopted by porsche from F1 technology, now volvo and soon many others. It will make some fat asses move when the light turns green...

If you guys care, drop a line, if not, wtf...

I think a lot of modern cars are aiming less at 0-60 times and more at fuel consumption, NCAP safety (hence the increased weight) and emissions. And gadgets, lots and lots of gadgets. Sad but true, gone are the days of the ridiculously cheap litres of petrol and insurance for a couple hundred quid.
I noticed for the first time a start-stop system on a car, a 60 plate BMW at the lights. Lights went green and there was a split second where you could hear the car start up before it started moving. Dont think it works too well on petrol cars, but hybrid petrol-electrics I think could work ok. I dont like the idea of a car that keeps turning itself off...

Thats why i like th zs. when car makers were falling over themselves to produce ever safer (read heavier) euro box cars mgr were chucking out the zs which was basically a 90's design .....old skool... :)

On the same line, I cant get over the way cars seem to get bigger and bigger.

Ford Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, you used to look at the car and know what it was and where it was in the line up. Now they all seem to have been on steroids. New Mondeos look like the size of the Granadas.

Same with the Vauxhall line up.

Maybe that's the problem, same engines trying to pull around bigger and wider models.

:happy2::happy2::happy2:

True, running a car will never be cheap as it used to be...
Start/stop system is a good point, but as said, annoying to many. I think KERS is much better approach, it provides much needed power exactly when you actually need it (green light launch, quick blast on the corner exits and a couple of overtakings). Volvo claims it will put the main engine up to 50% less needed, increasing it's life span and provide benefits of 20% fuel savings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieSJzDi4rAk

Amazingly simple, yet brilliant (the flywheel reaches 60k rpm)... Really looking forward to this being installed in most of the cars of the near future.

Exactly one of the things to make a ZS a smartass :-)

Plus, it's a lot safer (read lighter) around corners hence it doesn't even require so much passive safety ;-)

its all about emissions these days, but i think its a bit daft theyre looking at whats coming out the exhaust, but they arent really looking at the amount of extra energy, engineering, expense and emmisions that come into making these systems, egr systems really dont make that much of a difference, however for example on the transit they are forever going wrong...think of the amount of energy is required to make this valve.
then the diesel particulate system on the focus that has the extra tank that has highly toxic fluid in it, that when you refill it you loose so much, do they forget that that needs to get cleaned up and disposed of, and then the process for making it in the first place cant imagine thats too pretty
and worst of all the hybrids, the sulpher mining required to get the stuff for the batterys is horrendous, and the batterys have a service life of 6 years? or something, hmmm very friendly, well atleast the gas coming out the exhaust is clean.
the dpf systems on the mazda puts diesel in on the exhaust stroke when its doing a regen, if it doesn complete it because its a short journey then it keeps on doing it, eventually filling the sump up where if it doesnt get changed it then runs on on the sump oil and destroys the engine, turbo, all the sensors in the exhaust system, and the cat, think of the processes that are needed to create all these components, and they all need replaced because of an emissions system thats just destroyed them all

however the power you actually get out the modern tdci engines is amazing, been driving about in several modern 2 litre diesels and the torque in them just blows you away

not just you, the expensive dual mass flywheel gets blown to bits too. And then theres the extremely expensive, coded injectors - I wonder how many miles you need to do in a diesel to offset the cost of a new dual mass flywheel and a new set of coded injectors? As the Ford TDCI engines are now aging, I hear more and more of these issues cropping up. False economy perhaps?
Im getting cynical in my old age, Ive obviously been spending too much time on .org lol.

Focus runs ok, 1.8 tdci, but mk1 had some 90 hp, then mk2 115 hp but feels so wobbly and terrible 'round corners and no faster than mk1. Again, the new model 1.8 derv will have 163 hp but 1570 kilos to cope with... 1,6 tdci 115 hp will need 10,9 0-60, and the same 30-70... Was reading a review of some astra estate recently, over 160 hp and 10-ish to 60. Fuel consumption not so well either, same as older dervs because of so much dead weight.
On the other hand, no play station generation would buy anything that looks like PS1, would they? Progress I like, the direction I don't...

All that said, I vote even more for the KERS system, it' s autonomous, thus leading to no failures to the main power plant, it saves the engine, clutch and the drivetrain from stress, it involves no expensive batteries (just a small one) and when put to mass production it may become as cheep as your alternator or starter motor today. Plus it would feel as real wind in the back...
Couldn't agree more that most of the stuff they put into modern diesels are rubbish and certainly NOT cost effective, leading to high expenses once they fail (DMF, electronic injectors, particle filters...) Name it and it may cost a fortune, especially when you purchase a used focus or some other derv...

Some say MG's are not reliable... But certainly cheaper to fix. And I wouldn't say less reliable than any ford out there...

6 hrs labour for the dual mass plus the parts think ?400 for the flywheel, plus they usually take out the started too lol, mileage depends think 70,000 is the usual mark,
the mondeo diesels injection system usually fails when the lift pump fails sending swarf through the system

off topic slightly but theres about to be a major major amount of recall work going on on the mazda 6 2.2 diesel, timing chains stretching and thats on cars with 4000miles...like vast majority of the 6's are the diesels lol

The small cars of yesterday are the mid-size today. Manufacturers are introducing another car into the range as the small car. I cannot believe the size of the new Astra, how big is that! Each time they get heavier, carry more electronics and SRS systems, no wonder they are slow. We are now cocooned in a safety cell with too many creature comforts and its starting to take away the driving element leaving us somewhat aloof from the real world. Cars that brake for us, park for us, what's next, autopilot?

A mate of mine has just bought a Astra 1.6 180bhp Turbo. I was expecting near ZS V6 performance but it felt similar to my 120! What's that all about?!
To top it off he's getting 28mpg!

No replacement for displacement, that's what it's all about.

Carol Shelby once said, "Horsepower sells the car, but the torque wins the race!" :smart:

Maybe Stamford can help on this one, back in the 1950's Rover brought out a freewheel system.

Never could work out how it worked, but its sounds like the 1st Generation Kers system.

Never took off and dropped by Rover, so I suppose that says it all.

It has always been one of those things you hear about and sticks in the mind.

:smile1::smile1::smile1:

I wasn't born then Peter! ;)

Maybe they did do something, don't recall it.

:king: :smile1::smile1::smile1::smile1: ;);)

1st generation KERS system is to be found in toy cars lol :rofl:

So versatile and runs perfectly, just fit it in to any toy car. High speed flywheel holds a lot of momentum...

If we finally let the kids to use their imagination, the world could be a better place for all of us :santa:

I dont fancy having my car dragged back 300 yeards by a 70ft tall toddler just to drive forward a mile

:bounce::tease:

Imagine, clockwork cars, I've got a bigger spring in mine!!!

Oh no, where did I put the wind up key???

Sorted, emissions, fuel price increases, no oil changes.

Maybe your on to a winner, zsserbia.

:smile1::smile1::smile1:

If only my wee man would prefer clockwork or flywheel cars over these radio controlled duracell suckers which go depleted hour after hour :horse:

Jokes set aside, I really do think KERS is a good idea to save conventional engines that we love for some time, before we all go duracell power or whatever is going to be approved by the oil companies once they're depleted...

Nooo, it's more like toddler pushes you 300 yards forward and you continue going forward for another 500 free run using sheer power of your 60k rpm massive flywheel after the chap plants his face on the tarmac :joker:

Done some research and woilla, it's already named flybrid system, originaly an F1 KERS, but now derived and pending application to road vehicles as soon as 2013. The figures are looking good (20-30% fuel savings, 80 hp and lots of tourqe at instant will be able to launch any car from standstill to cruising speed with conventional engine turned off, 150k miles life span). Most realistic fuel saving thingy imo http://www.flybridsystems.com/Roadcar.html

In an F1 it uses as little as 13 litres of space and weighs about 25 kilograms. Great potential for an aftermarket installation, just a matter of time when it will happen. Many will choose these and save fuel rather than superchargers and oversized turbos.
Ironically, the original technology of flywheel energy storage is more than 60 years old but couldn't reach full potential until composite materials like carbon fibre were brought to perfection. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage
On top of that, flywheels have been used for decades for storing electricity and they are proved to be much more efficient than modern batteries in applications which require rapid charge/discharge and would last 25 years almost maintenance free.
So, looks like friction toy cars wont be so different than real ones in the future after all.

This may be off topic, sorry about that but as of right now I'm impressed with this technology, so comments are most welcome :thumbsup:

British engineering, again, bravo. Chinese would have to pay a lot more to get hold on this :smartass:

Or Buy a British Company, that has years of trading and knowledge, just lacking in people buying their product.

Same people that buy, German, Japanese or any make apart from British, for some reason!!!!

I will never buy a new car, I hate all the bullshit that comes with it. Made me laugh with that newish VAG engine in the Polo that's turbo and supercharged, 1.4 getting 160bhp and 38mph. The K Series VVC gets almost identical power and MPG... nice one for getting that power out a 1.4, but who gives a toss. More stuff to go wrong. I don't recall seeing any engine that has good power and returns a high MPG figure compared to the VVC K series/KV6. 30mpg and 180bhp from a "crappy old Rover", that'll do me fine.

Think when ZS's are too few and far between I'll look at driving a kit car as a daily driver, fast and good on fuel, that's the result of being light!