My ZS T series conversion.
 

Well following my noob thread http://www.themgzs.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=24530

I think its time to make a build thread !

I am going to copy and paste frm the thread i started last night from Rovertech.

Well i think i am safe to create a thread now :)

I wanted to do this years ago (back when i had my Golf VR6)... i got an engine block etc from Vard when i swapped my 416 for all his T16 stuff... that block stayed on the stand and has moved house with me in the last few years :lol:

But due to a very generous forum member i got V79 UOC for a bit of work on both the cars, being really pleased to be back in a 600 after the first one i had to sell due to running costs and issues at the time (i regretted that big time)... the ZS idea got shelved and forgotten.

Fast forward a couple about 3 years... V79 got its overheat issue that drove me insane, to a point i bought another 600 lol.

Only to find that even after 4x CTS sensors, it was just a CTS issue (there seems to be loads of faulty new ones floating about)... so by now i have repaired the box on my ebay bargain Ti and its in daily use... i had no need for V79 and the rear arches where getting the old tin worm starting... but i knew now the engine is 100% OK... what to do, sell it for a few hundred quid ? or do something i wanted to do years ago... :twisted:

Well i made up my mind to a ZS... and that's what i intend to do !

So, first thing i did was remove V79s heart, it actually makes me sad to do it, but its the only way to achieve my goal soooo...

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...3/IMAG0155.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...3/IMAG0157.jpg

And the customary Vard shot looking pleased (it was miserable weather)

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...3/IMAG0156.jpg

:lol:

After that, the nice bits like the springs,wheels,spoiler and such have been removed and sold to go towards this project.

A very unhappy looking Ti now ready to go to the scrapyard in the sky :(

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps5c6c7a2f.jpg

I need to get my behind in gear and ring the scrap yard on Monday as i just bought the next stage... more on that in a minute.

Right so after that i carried on putting a bit of money by every month until i found what i was after !

Its a Mk1 Mg ZS 180 saloon, not as pretty as a Mk2 given but its what i have wanted for years and they are known to be a bit better built.
This one (apparently) has its cambelt snapped.... i have not had the chance to look yet as its sat on my sister in laws drive way (had nowhere to put it), its tatty, but it is a project car after all, and i already have my mate Gary lined up to refurb the wheels and paint the bumpers and such, but the priority for the time being is to get running engine in it :)

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...psa3e87e7a.jpg


My younger sister in law seen here removing the rubbish monster stickers :facepalm:

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps25943906.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps066da66a.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...psc4198be6.jpg

Thats kind of where it stops at the moment in terms of work actually done...

So I was going to buy the rest of the bits i needed from ebay and scrap yards, but that's a lot of hassle and expensive, and finding obscure parts would be a pain.

So today i bid and won on a 420 Gsi, this should provide all the parts i require... i have quotes on delivery (not cheap) but at least i should have everything, hopefully the 600 will be gone and the 400 in its place by the end of next week (depends when the driver can pick the car up).

So for those interested, this is what £180.00 buys you :lol:


http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...psca6a0d52.png

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps1737aab3.png

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps89a74dc9.png

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps2d9554c8.png

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...psb591664c.png

This will take a while, and it wont be ready for months.. but i will keep the thread updated for those that are interested, or fancy doing something like this themselves.

I also intend on making the best engine i can out of the combination of parts i have... will have 3x blocks and 2x heads to choose from, at the same time all the gaskets will be replaced etc etc.

Gearbox should be fine, i already have steel caged diff bearings in it, but i will be replacing the diff seals.

Thats all for now folks :)

My aim is to achieve a good quality conversion, i dont want massive power, and it most definalty is budget job, but with the responsibilitys i have thats only to be expected.

What im after is... standard T turbo running 12 psi and looking like it should have been there !

It would also be nice to have a few extras on the car... cruise, air con (which no one seems to bother with), leccy rear windows as Pete mentioned would be good too.

The only thing that will be rushed is the strip of the 420, i really need clear goals on all the parts i need, but the car can not stay here for long at all, i just dont have the space what with the caravan on the drive, and i also dont want complaints as i rent... so having a drive that can fit 3/4 cars plus a garage... and owning a total of 5 cars and a caravan and taking up road space is not on in my mind, i like to keep my self to myself and not get in anyones way.

So.. the 420 should be delivered Wednesday, so i need the Ti gone by then !

Interestingly when i was looking up cruise control at stupid o clock yesterday i came across this from 2009 !

http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=318899

Looked a little happier then didnt it !

It did look a bit better then.

I've not come across factory fit cruise on a T before.

I wouldn't mind upgrading to atc, the loom all seems to be there for it, getting the condenser rad in might be a squeeze with the present i/c

Well the 420 has it...so might be worth look !

What cooler ? twin pass and large, i dont recall your setup Pete.

Pic of the i/c

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...0_DSC_0101.jpg

Oh i see, are you using a 220 rad as well then...?

I want to use the 600 setup, but im unsure about water pipes and air con at the moment... unless i can use the 420 condenser on the 600 rad...

See, i have an over active brain right now, im trying to trouble shoot before i have even looked lol.

Thanks for posting it all up, interesting project, or two.

Best of luck with it all.

:wave::wave::wave:

Yes, an alloy 220/420 turbo rad, it wouldn't be my first choice because turbo rads are hard to find and expensive, I think the ti rad with the i/c next to it is the best compromise.

Some of the questions about things like water pipes and aircon will be solved as you progress, once the engine is in, you can then see how much room you have for the rad and condenser, and also what shape coolant pipes will be needed to link it all up.

Would the derv rad be any good, or is the i/c too small??

Looking at the derv setup it looks remarkably similar to the Ti setup, the intercooler looks the same, i have been looking at that as an idea also.

I just have not looked in to it enough yet :)

Only ZRed is breaking one at the moment.

;););)

I think noodles zs used a 45td rad and i/c on his Blue mk2 T16.

Cool, thanks for the tip !

Somehow though i really do want the ac, i have had the Ti with ac for so long and you kinda get used to it.

Plus when i had the golf vr6, the ac did not work... so i was giving it some beans on the way home on a hot sunny day with the window half down... and to my horror, a wasp hit the window and bounced on to my lap... now im sh1t scared of wasps so i panicked and floored it to get off the duel carridgeway as quick as i could while trying to brush the damn thing off my lap... then it fell on the seat and went between my legs dangerously close to my nuts... i turned off jumped out and grabbed the closest thing to me... (a pick had randomly in the door bin), and stabbed the thing straight through the leather seat.

I vowed since then to have a car always with ac so i could keep the windows firmly closed :yikes:

I will have to look at his thread again if i can find it pete !

Link http://www.themgzs.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=12175

Ta, so that all fits as expected... but i cant see any ac pipework actually going anywhere lol.

Top hose fits well but the a non ac thermostat soooo i may have to scour images !!

I don't think it had a/c.

Ah.. yeah i suppose it starting life as a 1.6 it may well not have had it.

Scrap man called about the 600... shes off tomorrow, getting £100.00 for it lol.

Nice work,

Few more bits.

I'm not sure if this applies here but for my T16 maestro I got a radiator from a diesel as these have brass end caps instead of plastic. Trying to add fittings for the fan I managed to holed it so paid out to get it rebuilt with a high flow core.

End of an era... Ti is gone :cry:

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps8994ab0d.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps6e29da66.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps756b9a98.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps738506c9.jpg

At least it was dignified enough that it was winched on to the truck and not grabbed with a crane...

Still, arrival of the 420 gsi expected mid morning tomorrow !

Me and Vard are hoping to get the ZS back here before the 400 arrives.

And while i was out getting a solid tow bar and foot pump my Mrs made me buy this too :w00t:

Should save laying in gearbox oil or a cold wet concrete floor :smile1:

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps44d1b5f8.jpg

Nice, love it!

Right... productive day today.

Went out at a stupid hour this morning to pick up Vard, and tools etc.

Came home to find a wreck of a 420gsi on my drive :w00t:

Then we went to my sister in laws with a solid towbar and towed the ZS home :)

Zs pulled by a Ti :D

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...psdd64e101.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps5f19ec9f.jpg

And the ZS in its final resting place for the time being :)

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps0321ee97.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...psf9b70e01.jpg

Ok, so... to the 420, well im not sorry for breaking this, its an absolute nail :lol:

Rear arches have fallen apart, full of mold etc etc.

But fair play to it, we put a good battery on it, and turned the key, and it fired up no problem, smoked quit a bit, but it looks like it has been sat for years, green moss all over it etc etc, exhaust blowing an all that, but the clutch hydraulics were all fine and it seemed to run very well, it did start on the button after that, well did.

The 420 in all its glory !

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps4a8bf8d0.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps9533573c.jpg


And Vard felt it funny to stand on the bonnet :lol:

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps9a838556.jpg

So... at about 1pm, we went to work.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps27e90cc8.jpg

The 420gsi has cruise control too.. so im hoping to fit that in as well.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps86606821.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps4770bc2f.jpg

The aim here was to get the engine out so we could get the mounts and drive shafts etc.

Which we did :)

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps2c8f7dd7.jpg

And then took the customary pics of us conquering the engine bay :mrgreen:

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...psa3c78c72.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...psa561832d.jpg

Thats pretty much it today, most of the loom is loose in the bay, we still need loads out of the bay and the dash needs to come out tomorrow for the loom.

One last thing we did was to take the head off the 420, i figured if it was better than the one from V79 we should use that... and im pleased to say its spot on ! not been skimmed once :w00t:

So im a very happy chappy today, if a little tired.

The head.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps74b30224.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...psc4d5bc59.jpg

Oh and a couple of more of the throttle body/cruise control.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps753b189b.jpg
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps51d88d83.jpg

Thats all for now :thumbup:

Cruise control would be a funky add on.

One thing i read in Carmadbakers guide ... i now understand....removing the loom is most definitely the "hard but cheap way"...

No **** !

I honestly did not think it would be as time consuming as that.

But we did get it, im hoping we got it out at the right point, had to unplug it at a small orange connecter and a large blue connector behind the drivers kick panel, also two green plugs had to come out of the fuse box, all these went to the rear of the ZS.

Here is what i have !

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...ps5a31848b.jpg

I think i have everything i need now from the 420...

Complete engine bay loom/dash loom etc.

All engine mounts

Drive shafts

AC pipes,condenser fan.

All PAS pipes,

All water pipes.

Gear selectors complete.

If anyone can think of anything i have missed please let me know asap as i will scrap the 420 next week.

The other thing i need to double triple check is that the ZS outer CV joints will fit on to the 420 drives shafts ??

As i left the hubs on the 420.

Ok so engine bay of the 420 now.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...psf8c09330.jpg

And the inside.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...pscb41e1c4.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...psd997b6cd.jpg

We also stripped the rest of the bits off the 420s engine, Pas pump, water pump housing, ac compressor and the back plate its self.

Took the gearbox off as im not sure but assume now the speedo will take its drive from the gearbox...so that means im going to have to swap speedo drives out of the 400 or ZS in to the Ti box ?

Ah well, a good couple of days but man was it cold out there !

Things will slow down a little now, the 420 will be scrapped and over the next few weeks i will put together a suitable engine for the ZS.

Then i think Vard and I will have another few days and crack this job !

Good work form you and Vard there, the joints will swap no problem, they're the same size and the same number of splines, how many teeth are the abs rings on the 420 cv joints, did the 420 have electric rear windows, they would swap into the zs if it doesn't already have them.

Yep just checked the part numbers lol, thats fine as i will use the Mg outer CVs as they apparently have just been replaced !!

I went to start taking the electric windows out of the 420... then found the ZS already has them :mml:

Cool, parts bin engineering, you gotta love it.

Another small thing I've just thought of is the plastic mud shield in the l/h rear wheel arch, it got deleted off the zs's at some point but should still be on the 420, it protects the fuel filler pipe.

oh yeah, while I remember the speedo drive is off one of the rear abs sensors on the zs I think, it is on the mk2, and I think the mk1 is the same.

Now, this is another slight concern... but, if i use all that 420 loom... then surly it would then take the speedo reading from the gearbox...

I i was to keep the ZS loom and modify it (would have to work out how first) then i could use the zs instrument cluster... and the speedo would come from the ABS ?

The problem I can see with taking the speed signal from the gearbox sensor is wether the zs speedo will recognize it.

Oh it wouldnt.. hence why you use the 400 clocks too .. but they dont look as nice as the ZS ones.

Dan used the 400 clocks but then changed the dial faces to bring it up to date.

I think it would be better to use as much of the zs loom as possible, and just use the parts of the 420 loom that you need.

I didn't wire mine so I don't know how much work is involved in mixing the parts of the 2 looms.

Hmm.... im starting to think you might be right, only because i really want the ZS clocks... and i just stipped both of them down and they are totally different.

When I rebuilt the loom on my T16 conversion after the mess zippy made I noted the wiring colours and posted them on my website - http://home.btconnect.com/talkingcar...engineloom.htm

The colours are different on the different models but the functions are the same, you'll just have to identify the colours in the looms you are using to get a start.

Just to further complicate matters the cars I used were both dizzy and you are working with wasted.

IIRC the actual feed to the speedo on the ZS comes from the ABS ECU which in turn takes the info from the wheel sensor. If you are using the 400 dials you will need the sensor from it's gearbox, this is different to the Ti.

Not sure how you cruise control works but if it is like the system on the KV6 which uses the same engine bay components there will be a couple of control modules and lots of wiring in the loom so this might sway me to use that loom as much as possible.

Have you taken the exhaust off the 400 or are you using the one from the Ti?

I would be tempted to take the door cards from the 400, especially if the ones in the ZS don't have the colour panels. Also the rear winders and looms are worth taking as you'll be able to sell them.