Daily diesel
 

Hi guys first time posting I have embarked on a journey to try and get an l series diesel to 200bhp......yep

So here's where I am up to mods
Custom stainless powerflow decat system
Sdi injectors
Reidy remap
180 brakes
Boost gauge
Maf switch
Front mounted cooler

Things to fit that are sat in garage
Gt2056s
Borg and beck clutch

I will chuck up some pics when I am home

You'll need more than SDI injectors to crack 200bhp.

They top out at around 170-180bhp purely from fuel flow.

I'm not sure what your clutch is rated to that you have sat on the shelf but it'll need to handle a fair bit over standard to crack your target.

(torque at 4500 rpm to crack 200bhp is ~230lbsft), and our engine is typically peaky even with bigger turbos fitted - so it'll need to handle ~270lbft; pending the mapping it might need to cope with more.

Good luck, there are not many L-series running 200 ponies....

You might want to consider an LSD of some shape - they do torque steer with 250lbsft if you are not sympathetic.

Hi and good luck.

Start getting into big money to get above 160 -180 bhp.

Will follow the build with interest.

:):):)

200 bhp will need the power band moving northwards, not a bad thing as big torque numbers will kill the box.

head porting, common rail (1600bar+) a late gen vnt turbo with high exhaust flow and probably a bit of water meth.

Hi and welcome to the forum

I've no idea about tuning diesels.

James

Great to see another thread of a tuned diesel. Stick at it and it will be good fun :)

I was going to say, best ask Phil how to get to the "200" L Series Club :)

:hi: to the site and good luck with the project.

It doesn't "need" common rail or the water meth.....

and it has been done on previous gen VNT turbo's as well, but the GTB's certainly give it some extra overhead potential - once you work out how to get more fuel in there!

it may not 'need' a clean burn - something that 1600bar plus rail has a chance at providing, but it will be a horrible smoky thing if it can't burn the fuel efficiently.

If its smoking like they often do when they get to the 160hp mark, then they will be suffering bore wash.
If you don't mind a smoky diesel with bore wash then you don't need a high pressure rail. But having that lovely film of oil on the cylinder walls washed away by excess fuel isn't smart.

You may not need a high flowing head and more cam, you could just (for example) whack on a monster turbo and crank it up to 50psi (don't think the motor would last long tho)
But if you use intelligence then you can get power with a clean burn, with minimal lag and without dumping in either huge amounts of fuel or silly boost levels.

But you could just drop in another diesel motor that had power out of the box in the first place.
Didn't Rover have a go with the Fiat JTD motors? - was that the 45 or 75?

Never heard of Rover using the Jtd diesels from fiat?
A couple of prototype "g series" cars made it onto the road, I have seen only one in a running car. That was the l series with common rail injection and a VNT turbo. Like hens teeth thtough.
Converting a normal l series to common rail would be a mammoth task and require and ecu, loom and all the sensors from another vehicle. It's not like us diesel guys can just buy a "universal" aftermarket ecu to control such projects.
Realistically to get better attomisation it is a case of experimenting with different nozzles and break pressures and just hope the pump can cope.
The other big limitation is that timing advance cannot be altered in the main ecu, it has to be done via the ecu on the pump itself which nobody I know of can access.

I've not heard of any other engines being used in any of the modern diesels myself - can't remember if there was a pug engine in the wedges, or it is was another prima/L varaient.

The 75's used the BMW engines, in a slightly lower state of tune than BMW used.

The G-series tests outperformed it, but it was a shame it never made it beyond development mule, was going to be 160 & 190bhp flavours out the box...... common rail and VNT, we could have seen 200+ quite easily I reckon, but there we go.

Some timing adjustments can be made on the ECU I thought, or was that just the timing of the fuel injection? I know early reidy maps were blowing HG's on the OE turbo's with SDI's, even though they had cleaner smoke levels.

the bigger turbo will cure the soot issues, should be fairly clean if you stick to the SDI's and don't swap out the injectors.....

I'm hoping this year I join the 200 club tho.... if only I get that controller, then I can start to do stuff again!

Aye the 218SLD (or SD) from the 90's (not the bubble shape) used a 1.9 Pug XUD engine... I had one and I liked it :)

Have you not got the controller yet Pete?
I remember in 2011 I think it was when I first fitted my VNT there was promise of a stand alone controller, surprised it hasn't made it to sale yet, there is obviously demand for it. Lack of a decent controller is why I sacked the VNT off in the end.

it was the 75 http://forums.mg-rover.org/mg-zt-rov...e-ebay-146524/

whilst the marketing guys made big noises about how great a rehashed old rover motor was compared to fiat and bmw's the same people also told us the sv could have 1000hp!!!

only recently have modern diesels been outputing 200bhp from a 2.0 from the factory, granted back in 2006 alpina tuned the BMW variant to 200bhp with a hybrid turbo (needed 2,000rpm to get going) injectors, intercooler etc, but similar to stock boost levels and ultra clean emissions.

The fiat JTD only made 180bhp with twin turbo's in the day.

Ford could only dream of it back then, as could the French, even the rather brilliant 2.2hdi with its twin turbo's did 170bhp, the same motor went on to feature in the mondeo 155bhp and revised into the jags.

Only today with piezo injectors, 2000bar common rails and the latest gen turbo's are we seeing 200hp/2.0ltr on the sporty diesel models out the factory...
So when rover say in 2005 they could get 190bhp from a rehashed old motor and still make emissions, no doubt still an 8-valve head, and given all the marketing bs they fed in the past, I have trouble believing them!!!

No controller still has not appeared, it nearly did a few months ago, but then it was faulty when it was finally tested.

Problem with the PCB, so Kris had to start again.

There is a demand, but most people will not tolerate the time :(

If I had not bought a GTB, & exhaust manifold & downpipe from Ade that is sat waiting to be fitted, I'd have detuned the car and just admitted defeat tbh - too much lost money if I don't see it through, however long it will take!

The G-series was 16v - and as I understand it, it was not marketing that came up with the figures, it was test bed results.

I think a lot of manufacturers purposely detune the diesels while it was not 'cool' to own one, as they'd rather not show up the petrol models.

With VNT rather than twin turbos it is easier to keep emissions down if you get the fuel mapping and vane control right - but I'll admit that the emissions tests required for legal passing would have limited a lot of vehicles until common rail came out.

If diesels were tested on the actual emissions on the test not just particulate count the aftermarket tuning scene would not be as viable especially for our old tech engines. Hell the recent scandals have shown it is tough for even the manufacturers still!

The issue with a vnt big enough to provide good top end without crudely overspinning it (like one french manufacturer whose cars suffered lots of turbo failures before it was revealed their map overspun the turbo) is getting it going whilst keeping it clean.
The mappers (word used loosely) tend to chuck in more fuel to get it to spool, and they often smoke a little (or a lot) whilst they build boost.

A twin turbo setup on the other hand usually has the small turbo boosting at 1100rpm, crossover around 2500rpm depending on setup and still good strong boost at the high end of the rev band without excessive emp and or emt.

The twin turbo setup typically produces more power for longer with higher ve .
In view of this I struggle to see how a turbo with a smaller window 'is easier to keep emissions down', tyhe manufacturers work hard on emissions regardless of single, twin or triple turbo setup.

why didn't the Chinese carry on with the g series?

Ok I'll concede you are right in terms of pure performance where space is not an issue - but on most smaller cars, a twin turbo setup is just not practically viable, thus it is easier to keep the emissions down + keep lag free spooling with a VNT rather than a single big turbo or trying to package twin turbos.

Topic for another day, but compound charging offers a lot of benefits as well, but is a nightmare to actually package.

G-series development had stopped before MGR went bust, they never had anything other than development mules in operation in a couple of 75's, and a ZR/25 iirc - I believe they sold the engine plans off as part of the administration actions during the collapse. I believe they went to Tata or another indian company.

SAIC then were no allowed to use it as a result - My memory might be hazy but I think that is how it went down :(

Thanks for all the advice I am looking into getting an Lsd for the car this thread was Phils idea we spoke on the Facebook diesel group

This might be a stupid question how do I upload pictures do I need a photo bucket account?

Forgot to mention I have found a fabricators round the corner from my house I am waiting on a quote to make the adapter plate and downpipe for the gt20 to fit then will be on the hunt for 200tdi I did talk to Phil about it and there are some issues with the 200tdi nozzles so I am trying to find a way around that but in the mean time I need to set the rest of the car up ready for the power

<a href="http://s649.photobucket.com/user/Martin_Jenkinson/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0714_zpspd2wka7k.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/Martin_Jenkinson/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0714_zpspd2wka7k.jpg" border="0" alt="Mg zs td photo DSC_0714_zpspd2wka7k.jpg"/></a>

[IMG] <a href="http://s649.photobucket.com/user/Martin_Jenkinson/media/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0714_zpspd2wka7k.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu218/Martin_Jenkinson/Mobile%20Uploads/DSC_0714_zpspd2wka7k.jpg" border="0" alt="Mg zs td photo DSC_0714_zpspd2wka7k.jpg"/></a> [/IMG]

[IMG]http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...pspd2wka7k.jpg[/IMG]

Right OK got it that's how she started

[IMG]http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps7webgx6r.jpg[/IMG]

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...psnmbbpgmk.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxjmt15ew.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...psiqfzowbm.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...pszuriaytu.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps3rsfd1ta.jpg

So that's it so far will get picture of the turbo and clutch up soon

Thanks for all the welcomes and the advice

Looking good mate! Good progress :)

Right going to go over some of the stuff I have done already just want to add here that's it's not perfect I am not a mechanic the most I have done to a car before this one was my manifold replacement on a k series zs so here we go feel free to offer tips and tell me if it's crap

So started here with the fmic

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...psdzgipgjy.jpg

I removed the crash rail cos my intercooler was bloody massive I know it's probably to big but swapped it for some old hairpins that where taking up space

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...pszxzw6gjo.jpg

Got it mounted thanks to come brackets I had in the garage and some odd bolts I found at the mother in laws

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...psq79jm2km.jpg

Cut the slam panel probably one of the most nervous things I have ever done

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps6yrq3nvn.jpg

Cut the side out got it all tight and fitting nicely

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...psoxzkrpbh.jpg

Cut over side had it all fitted and test started the car it was perfect 1st time

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...psxjmt15ew.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...psgskzqbci.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...psng5jd2su.jpg

So now where I am up to with the gt20

So thanks to ste Birch he managed to find a perfectly good gt2056s for me on eBay total cost of £130 which is a damn good saving for anyone that has looked into it

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...psey5ejqvi.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...pslmydzxrq.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...psjrxhl4p2.jpg



So next up adapter plate to fit the gt20 to the manifold which is on a little one unfortunately not being a mechanic my tools aren't great so ste sent me the drawing and this job will be out sourced to a fabricators

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...psgbcdnidf.jpg

I managed to find someone getting rid of a discharge plate so grabbed that before it went however its going to meet modifying as I want to use the internal waste gate and this plate hits the wastegate and keeps it slightly closed

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...psd610uzfp.jpg

I got myself a flange and a 90 bend off ebay ready to get my downpipe welded

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...psiaenxwu7.jpg

And here's the clutch that me and a mechanic friend will be fitting

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...psy8wnv2es.jpg


So list of jobs left to do

Clock turbo
Get plate made
Downpipe welded
Swap actuator over
Fit the gt20
Fit clutch
Figure out the fueling issue
Get remapped
Find an Lsd that fits
Find coilovers or springs
New brakes

Any advice is great on either what parts fit or where to get them

Looks good mate

Hi and welcome to the forum.

James

That intercooler install looks good but don't leave your keys on the floor, you'll stand on them!

If you don't have any decent tools have a look at the pro range in Halfords, 99% of the time they have a sizable discount on last years range.

may be able to get a plate laser cut from 10mm steel to mate the new turbo to old flange, can you dimension it up?

The dimensions for you sir

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...sbhusxtks.jpeg

Had both my kids today while the wife was at uni so could only do a tiny bit of work while my son had his nap so with help from my 3yr old daughter this is a little mock up

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...pswpf7b2vj.jpg

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/u...pslhsxpwtn.jpg

Also looking a different diff for the car would a Lsd from the t16 fit failing that there one on eBay for the pg1 box

So anything else I might need
Recommendations?

New diff
I have a clutch
Have a short shift fitted
And have new drive shafts on it
180 brakes front and rear fitted

Suspension?

the quaife diff would be the one to go for, they wear out but have a life time warranty (check terms)
the Torsten b as fitted by rover - most will be old and worn out by now, they wear open and become useless, whilst most people will argue with this and tell me how great it still is, most people are only using it on the road and have never hit the race circuit in real anger where the diff shows how good or bad it is.
my carbon plate diff is probably due a rebuild after 18months!!

not a fan of a quick shift on the pg1, it will wear out the synchros and isn't really that much faster at changing gear, it just forces things.

suspension tuning will always make a car faster