tuned derv ZS update
 

Figured i would pop an update on here for those that done lurk on the other forums that have a vague interest in the saga that is tuning my derv ZS...

had it on the dyno today and still had a dissapointing 160bhp and only 220lbs-ft of torque once more much later in the rev range than expected and still way to smokey and too hot over 4000 rpm.

have finally come to the decision (that i should have madea while back) to try a different set of injectors as the ones that i have got are just too extreme for the vp30 fuel pump we have in the ZS.

So currently I am in the process of selling my current injectors and going to be making a hybrid injector out of the Zs standard injector and SDI injector.

Basically i am going to hope to keep the delivery and break pressure of the newer injector with the larger flow nozzle from the SDI. this should mean good atomisation of fuel, but more of it than the standard injector would normally flow. so it will be the best i can get for power, fuel economy and torque delivery...

the SDI's on their own tail off quite a lot after the peak, where the normal injecotr has the peak, but then holds torque flat until there fuel drops off. wth the hybrid turbo i am hoping to up the fuel after the torque peak and keep it at the same flat level as the peak for as long as possible.

I am hoping that this will give me a good starting point to start over with this dammed car....

normal injectors can give about 220lbs-ft peak torque with a remap, and SDI's around 250... if i can get 250 and hold it flat, then i might still see 170-180bhp.....

oh and it seems to have blown the exhaust manifold gasket - probably the 27PSI boost it is currently peaking at:oops:.. and it looks like it has pissed the gearbox oil out again, as it dropped out of 5th a few times on the motorway this morning..

all in all an expensive experiment i tried.... here is hoping to better luck with my new plans.

Sorry you didnt get the result you wanted.

When I got my derv didnt know much about the car or engine, I was hopeing it was a common rail BMW lump. As i thought it would be great for tuning, etc.

Soon found out it was the L series, still its goes OK now.

I dont have a clue on the derv, thats why I've been following your project so closely and thanks for posting up the good and bad points.

My one does smoke a bit, but thats when you get up to 70!!!!!

All the best with the new set up and hope you sort the problems out. At least you are the front runner in the derv development cause, always a difficult place to be.

:bow::bow::bow:

I admire you for persevering with this project, sorry to hear you have had problems. But that's the way these things go, positives and negatives but the main thing is learning from it. Do keep us updated as it is interesting to see another perspective.

Turbo route Mick, nice ZS derv.

:beer2::beer2:

You are going to have a look at my van when I come down next week and tell me what you think to how that goes with just the little mods I have done

if you could get your dervs to 170bhp that would be mint!!! just a shame it dosnt sound like a v6 lol

sure thing Steve :)

The turbo can techncially flow enough air for about 190bhp in the diesels, so dropping it down to 25PSi (as that is really as high i i want to run it) i could techncially see around the 170-180 mark.

that has always been the plan to get close to a 180 as i could but still maintain the economy.... was a rather poor 38mpg last tank but i was testing out a few things since the boost leak was fixed.....

the real problem with the power figure with diesels is that we only have such limited rpm to play with, mine is currently still pulling at 4200rpm, but as the injector just dump the fuel in, it is not atomising properly, and there is just not enough time to burn it. hence seeing temps in the exhuast manifold of 900C when doing a flat out run in 5th.

It is true it will never sound like a v6 - in fact in usual L-series fashion it sounds rough and un-refined, but generates a few turned heads when on boost :)

quick update....

Car is off to hospital tomorrow (was suppsoed to be today but the r25 loan car is poorly)

having the gearbox removed and stripped to fix the 5th gear issue - suspected spring failure for the synchromesh being the likely culprit.

Also getting my hybrid injectors fitted which co-insides well with a trip to Yeovil for yet another trip on the dyno on Saturday morning....

here is hoping to get it smoke free and some decent figures - tho we have no idea quite what to expect as it is an experiment and no-one has tried it before.

If it fails i will just pop the SDi nozzles back on the SDi injectors and go from there.

*keeps fingers crossed*

Best of luck, hope it all goes well.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Yer good luck with it Pete hope you unlock all that potential it has!

Best of luck wi her, tis a very interesting experiment:)

well it seems i have once more jinxed myself....

the r25 is poorly and as such there is currently no way i ca nget my car to Matt in time for him to fix both his and mine, before he needs it for a job already booked in.

So it is being postponed until 8th Feb and hopefully dyno on the 13th - assuming Matt Reidy is not already booked.

Looks like i will be missing the .org sw meet as well as i will prob have to do the car swap on the sunday :(

I really think my car hates me as it never wants to do anything to my schedule!

Right, well we missed the 8th of Feb plan due to a few things coming up, so car is only just with Rally Matt atm.

Am hoping he finds the gearbox gremlin and i get the car back again some-time next week. I am away with work for the first 3 days of the week so not really an issue for me.

Just need to find a spare saturday now to head to yeovil - prob will be 1st weekend in March if Matt Reidy is free- to get the mapping tweaked.

It was funny got an email from Matt yesterday saying how he is enjoying driving the car atm and then he descibed it as the following: (slightly paraphrased)

"It is like a Windsor Chair with an ASBO"

I am geting all excited and nervous as to how the hybrid injectors will work:
a) with the mafless remap designed for the wingy injectors
b) once it has had another fettling on the dyno....

:mbounce:

top notch!! hopefully your luck is on the turn now!! :)

Best of luck, hope it gets the oomph your looking for.

:-D:-D:-D

look forward to the results Pete

You'll be like a dog with two dicks when fully sorted! :laugh:

Good luck with it! When I saw it at Matts, I loved the look of that intercooler (think thats what it was!)

Thanks Guys :)

If it was in the lower grill then yes it is the front mounted intercooler - nice race\rally spec core with custom end tanks with thermocouples plumbed into it... (not sure if MAtt had put the bumper back on when you saw it last or whether it was till 'Naked' :laugh:)

You can see it in the pics steve took when he gave my car its winter clean :)

I think i will be better than a dog with two dicks, purely as there will be no indecision as to what to do... i will just go out and drive the dammed thing :D

Well just been to collect the car again and it has finally stopped loosing drive..

Turned out it was the split pin on the n\s driveshaft this time which did the same thing as the offside a few weekss previously. just not quite as much gearbox oil loss this time :)

Hybrid injectors are currently in place, and i have taken a performance hit, althoughit is not quite as much as i was expecting. in 5th it will still keep up with most things on the road.

the real odd thing i have now got is that there is ZERO smoke out the back of the car, i had got used to a small cloud following me around all the time.

Unfortunatly at such short notice Matt Reidy could not fit me in tomrrow for a remap session, so i am popping down to see him on the 19th March am as i have the day off for an event in london in the evening. (it sucks that if i dont take the whole day off for an evening event i can expect to not be in the country :()

EGT's with these injectors in are seriously reduced, as sustrained run in 5th right up to 4000rpm only peaked at 680c, that is a good 200C lower than it was with the wingy spec injectors - which is also very promising....

God knows that the figures this thing will kick out will be, but she is driving very smooothly all the same :)

Sounds like it is finally coming together, probably one of those cars we find hard to understand until we see it in the flesh and go. Impressive spec, looking forward to the end result when Matt has done his stuff.

yeah, last thing really to consider is the induction - thinking of putting the battery in the boot and going for something enclosed where it used to be.

I dont use my MAF sensor so dont need to worry about the OE feed to the turbo anymore.

I was wondering quite how gutless the car was going to be switching back to these injectors, but what it lacks in outright performance it seems to be making up for in responsiveness....

i can't wait to see some dyno plots for it tho :D

A derv with no smoke! No excuse for a dirty rear bumper now!! lol Good to hear you are finally having some luck with it, will keep my fingers crossed for you on the 19th! :)

hehe yeah i really need to get it cleaned up, esp as in a month or so there will be good reason for it to be properly clean again.

Just have to decide whether i can get it clean enough myself or whether i need to get some-one else to do it again ;)

I did find it really odd being able to stamp on the throttle after so long gently increasing it for so long - and still not leave a smoke trail :laugh:

I must admit, you keep half an eye on the mirror to see whats happening behind.

Then thiknk s** it and put the foot down a bit more.

:smile1::smile1::smile1:

I like the smoke.... its like sticking two fingers up at the person behind you!

yes it is indeed.. but slightly excessive when you then are not able to see them at all behind you ;)

:fun::fun::fun::ohmy::ohmy::whistle::whistle::D:D

Well for those not on .ORG who dont lurk in the diesel section i am proud to annouce that the car project has been completed....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...h_IMG_0270.jpg

I guess the first this to explain from the thumnail are the different runs...

teh green run was how the car was running on the MAFless map designed to reign in the wingy injectors - but with just the hybrid ones fitted.

that return a respectable 211lbsft torque and 147bhp without a single hint of smoke even on the dyno - if you consider i was only getting 22lbs-ft & 160bhp with the wingy injectors high EGT's and smoke screen i was suprised and quite impressed!

Next Matt got working his magic and we discovered that there is an additional limiter in the mapping side when switching to a MAFLess remap. Not an Issue with SDI's as they flow enough fuel to not hit this new found limiter.

So we plugged the MAF back in and got the red run..... And all i can say is result :D

267lbsft and 169 bhp....tho a few drops in the curves that matt wanted to smooth out, as well as we detected i was only running 23PSI of boost.

so we uppped the boost to around 24-25PSI (not 100% sure as not using a boost guage and the MAP sensor can't read above 23.5PSI) and did the final run....

end result 170bhp and 269lbs-ft - the blue on in the pic

EGT's were peaking at around 850C at 4400 so well within safe limits, and on the road there is next to no smoke - a bit of a haze but nothing worse than a particualte filter burn off from the modern cars!

So all in all i failed to create my MGSZ 180TD - but i got dammed close. Initial run up the drap strip next to matts serious impressed me, as did the quick blast from the traffic lights on the way to the cash machine.... had serious wheel spin in 1st even with the ATB, but dropped it to second floored it and quickly ran out of revs - even with it having a torque limiter!

What i find really impressive is that even at 4000 rpm i am still getting 220lbs-ft torque - which is more than you get out a standard car with a remap at peak levels!

the long schlep home was not great due to the weather, but it was still nice fun - just rying to find an excuse to take it out for a proper run now the weather is nice today :D

Is funny i did say that i was finished with the car, but I have just been able to get my hands on the stainless mid section by wingy to complete the whole exhuast and at a bargain price too as it is 2nd hand :D

I would not be too disappointed with those figures, they are excellent! I could not begin to imagine the way that drives now, sounds like fun! I reckon that could be the benchmark then?

well there was a ZR over on .org that had 174bhp and 312lbs-ft torque - but it was running 30PSI of boost and the rollers on the day seem to be a bit suspect - by the guys admission over on .org Attached to that was the fact the owner also blew the HG to pieces very shortly afterwards - so the car has been off the road for about a year now!

So i have not broken any records with the figures - but for me it was never about the bragging rights.

It is a joy to drive it i must admit - if i want to just cruise, 5th gear and 40mph and plant the foot and off it goes....

If i want to make rapid progress use all the gears and it just flies haven't taken it out on any twisties yet, but i suspect i would scare myself silly and run out of ability if i used as much loud pedal as i used to!

All in all i am happy with the improvements in the car from 115\192 stock to 170\270 - just a bit upset i tried the wingy injectors, as this project would not have taken 2 years otherwise :laugh:

No point in having the figures and no reliability, there needs to be some sensible compromise. Sounds like you have both. Now it is time to enjoy the fruits of your labour.

yeah - here is hoping that we have got the reliability anyways.

the compants fitted should be up to it - just hope we dont over stress one of the OE parts we have not uprated - I will be keeping my fingers crossed tho :)

Infairness i also blew the HG to bits with just the wingy injectors and hybrid turbo running low boost - so i think that it is something that needs to be aware of when tuning the later L-series.

Matt has a theory that due the weakness of the timing solenoid within the pump, it start the car running too much advance that then increases the cylinder pressures and blows the HG. % wise it is not loads but it is certainly more than the older SDI's seemed to have.

Nice one pete bet your well chuffed and quite relieved lol. Those figures are very impressive :thumbsup:

Yeah when we had a few problems with the Mafless map i was starting to get a bit worried - but it turned out that there is another limiter in the ECU that we hit - you dont see it with SDI's as they are able to flow more fuel without it having to be requested explicitly...

Said to Matt that for once this time i actually am leaving really happy rather than some-what deflated :laugh:

Took the car out for a quick blast earlier - was suppsoed to be longer but out lost cat turned up and we got a call from the person who had captured her so had to turn round again - still any excuse ;)

Glad youve got it sorted, sounds like its the result you were looking for.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::hooray::hooray::wav e:

Well the car is broken again..

was thrashing it very hard on sunday and it has pissed all the coolant out of the expansion tank - via the pressure release valve.

It could just be the cap is faulty but i am a bit skeptical, but will be replacing it when i get my hands on one.

If it is not the cap, then it is HGF\headlift again.

At Matt reidy's recommendation i need to get the codes read to see if i am getting a -ve deviation error from the timing solenoid in the pump. If that is yes there is a problem, then what has happened is the car has been running with way too much advance and the cylinder pressures have gone up too much - blowing the gasket again.

So to fix that would need new pump or reconditioned one, head stripping and rechecking again, new belts and being put together once more.

If there is no -ve deviation error and the cap doesn't fix it then the problem lies elsewhere and will require some investigation. not sure where to start tho if something else causes it..

To say i am gutted is an understatment....

Words fail me...............sorry to hear you are having problems. Let's hope it is trivial and easily cured.

I hope it is easy, but not expecting it to me... when people say they saw steam coming out the back of the exhaust while i was using throttle says to me that the HG has gone again.

and that it used a further 3/4 of the expansion tank once i refilled the system getting me the the 30 miles back to bristol yesterday while only using up to 2500 rpm and part throttle susgest it is more than just the cap....

stupid car it really much prefers to live stationary in rally_matts workshop than to be driven by me it seems....

Dedication this is mate.....if it was me id have probs given up.........Good luck fixing it