my zs supercharged back on the road

[garymgzs180]

here is a couple of pictures of my oil lines. could not upload anymore. would not let me. i used the hole ontop of the snout to fit a breather line which goes back to the cam cover. on the first picture you can see where i put the oil return. it is not the hole that is already there in the bottom of the snout but i made a new one one slightly higher up so it does have a very small pool of oil. i used the original oil out line as a second breather. i basically went overkill so the rubber coupling would not melt again. when it melted i did not know anything about it untill i had stopped driving and heard a knocking noise at idle. the knocking was the alloy couplings hitting where the rubber had gone. it completely dissappeared and went out the oil return into the sump. all my oil lines and breathers are 6an aeroquip from speedflow.com . i bought my kit from bridge garage who bought the last ever three kits so i have been helping them and another guy called darren who bought one with their mapping and modifying of which they are grateful. so there will be another 2 on the road in coming weeks.

[Supercharged_Z]

ah so its a breather!! sorry i thought it was your feed.

is your return out of the side of the snout? rather than the front?

when we was doing devolpment on it we found 1 cm of oil above or below the max line in the snouth would cause it to overheat, it really is somthing else, i have a melted spider bush in my garage, il grab a pictrue of it, its years old and still stinks to high hell of hot gear oil.

looking forward to seeing a few supercharged zs's about its about time

[Supercharged_Z]

bedfordshire near aylesbury, i think the x mas meet is in bluewater kent iirc

[garymgzs180]

Originally Posted by Supercharged_Z

bedfordshire near aylesbury, i think the x mas meet is in bluewater kent iirc

the way i saw it was that the oil is what lubricates and cools the gears. once the oil has been sprayed onto the gears it has done its job and needs to be evacuated as quickly as possible as it is now hot. the gears have no clearance between them . they are meshed tightly and so when using the oil return higher up you have an oil bath. the oil cannot escape from between the gears as they mesh and that is what loads it up and causes all the heat. we bench tested the theory. we ran the charger with a drill with the snout off. then applied lots of oil and the drill slowed down alot where the load had increased. so we found that just the oil jet was ample lubrication.

here is a small article about cam timing when using supercharger instead of naturally aspirated. every bit of research i do says the same thing. reducing valve overlap, reduced inlet duration and increased valve lift are the modifications required. im trying to get a new set of cams made but piper insist that their 270 durations cams for naturally aspirated will do the job. but george at rsm has already advised me that they do not work as he has already tried. was it you and your car that george has been helping with
Intake cam:

Because of the negative effects of overlap on a supercharger car's performance, and especially in the case of high exhaust back pressure as is the case with most factory supercharged cars, we find that the optimal cam duration for the intake cam is typically 30-40* of duration less than a normally aspirated camshaft for the same peak power RPM. The decision to reduce the intake cam duration rather than split the duration reduction between the intake and exhaust cams, is that the intake cam will flow air under pressurized conditions (due to the addition of the supercharger and the increase in intake manifold pressure) and so at a reduced intake cam duration the engine will still be able to get it's full share of intake air. At the same time, the high rpm efficiency improvement from the reduction of overlap will also boost power production with a more conservative cam. Finally, if we would like to get more flow from the intake cam, there is still the option of using a higher lift camshaft (with a steeper profile due to the decreased duration) with supporting valve train modifications to make sure valve float doesn't occur at higher rpms.

Intake cam timing:

The cam timing for the intake cam would ideally be retarded which would move the intake cam opening event farther away from the exhaust valve closing event so as to reduce or eliminate overlap, and as a side effect the power stroke duration will increase by retarding the intake cam which can also compensate for the lost power from the duration reduction.

Exhaust cam:

The exhaust cam duration and lift for a supercharged version of the motor should be similar to a nitrous camshaft, in the sense that the exhaust cams on nitrous specific builds have:

1- Very healthy cam duration & very healthy cam lift to allow a severely elevated amount of exhaust gases to be able to efficiently exit the motor when the nitrous is activated and the horsepower (and thus the exhaust gasses) have both doubled in quantity.

2- As little or no overlap if possible, as any overlap would mean that nitrous would be sprayed from the intake side and out the exhaust, which is wasteful of our limited supply of nitrous. Similarly the more overlap we have, the harder the supercharger will have to work because of what we explained earlier about either exhaust reversion into the intake, or the supercharger pressurizing the exhaust.

Exhaust cam timing:

Advancing the exhaust cam both opens and closes the exhaust valves sooner. Opening the exhaust valve sooner slightly reduces the power stroke, but at the same time it reduces overlap and makes better use of our supercharger. Typically an an advanced exhaust cam combined with retarded intake cam will provide the best results on a supercharged car, especially with a restrictive exhaust.

[Supercharged_Z]

well i can only say that george ran his car with cams and it lost power. put the car back to std cams and it gained, it also gained no boost from it.

but my car has been helped by george for 4 yr, however its always been budget restricted.

with regards to the oil, i think i mistook yours, mine is very simular just a different exit.

overall you will probably find what i have over time, pistons are too weak for forced induction. simular to the ones on the 160 k series. however long it takes for them to fail is the question, i was very suprised when my car failed it was running perfect for two years, fueling spot on also, ran good power and got abused on the track.

[Bobdope2002]

oh gawd the SC wheres harbs if he gets wind of this he'll be on here telling everyone not to do it and telling you and this guy that he was wrong to buy one and his car is gonna go bang tommorow :@

[Dave ZS-X]

i dont agree ross, you dont need some of those things if you are going to drive like a granny maybe but why have a supercharger if you arent going to use it, and what if you want to go on track once in a while or to pod.
Theres no point skimping on a build, and then driving around in a car were your nervous every time you give it the beans incase it fails....do it properly first time and it will save you in the long run. Youve been saying for 4 years this works and that works and we dont need such and such and yet here we are still seeing failures.
When your building an engine you have to factor in good tolerances if you want it to last, and this is why they havent lasted because instead of being built with some tolerance margin they are in fact already producing more power than the engine was designed for.
Ive seen yours and georges sc zs run up pod in only mild heat and it killed your terminal speeds thanks to intake temps ,ive known you run 99 mph terminals and i matched that in my nasp zs, so if you cant even go to pod and do a few runs without losing power then something needs looking at and george strongly advised me to go water injection when i looked at charging my zs.

[Supercharged_Z]

Originally Posted by Dave ZS-X

i dont agree ross, you dont need some of those things if you are going to drive like a granny maybe but why have a supercharger if you arent going to use it, and what if you want to go on track once in a while or to pod.
Theres no point skimping on a build, and then driving around in a car were your nervous every time you give it the beans incase it fails....do it properly first time and it will save you in the long run. Youve been saying for 4 years this works and that works and we dont need such and such and yet here we are still seeing failures.
When your building an engine you have to factor in good tolerances if you want it to last, and this is why they havent lasted because instead of being built with some tolerance margin they are in fact already producing more power than the engine was designed for.
Ive seen yours and georges sc zs run up pod in only mild heat and it killed your terminal speeds thanks to intake temps ,ive known you run 99 mph terminals and i matched that in my nasp zs, so if you cant even go to pod and do a few runs without losing power then something needs looking at and george strongly advised me to go water injection when i looked at charging my zs.

ho ho, i ran 99mph terminals when the wind was blowing down track in a very big way, not because my intake temps were through the roof.
never really lost power at pod always been around 102 and last time i went 104 for weight saving, hence the consistant amount of timing slips, everytime i have been it got faster with less weight. easy.

on that list, please tell me exactly why you need the items you have listed. give examples? why does he need bigger injectors whats wrong with his smt he has etc?

[Dave ZS-X]

ask george hes told me what they needed more than once and he should know.
Sorry but if you knew what you were on about youd still be on your first engine and your first charger, but hey i dont really care, you keep skimping and paying the consequences, its your wallet,lol.

[Supercharged_Z]

Originally Posted by Dave ZS-X

ask george hes told me what they needed more than once and he should know.
Sorry but if you knew what you were on about youd still be on your first engine and your first charger, but hey i dont really care, you keep skimping and paying the consequences, its your wallet,lol.

Dave i thought it was more than reasonable to ask you to justify your comments, rather than talking about things that might not be needed or understand why they are needed.

forged pistons yes, after all they are what break, and as we learnt with my car over time. why they break? have you looked into this?

im asking why or how you substantiate the rest of the list you have posted.

Belive you me i have looked down every avenue afterall iv had a supercharged zs for over 4 years, having looked at specs problems etc along with George, what you post isnt the route you would need to take if you have a supercharged zs.

also im intrested! do you know what your on about?