ZS TD project - Page 12

ZS Phil · 08-05-15, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p_b82

Yeah it won't be a 'valid' comparison as the EGT really does change with soot/smoke levels.... Your smoke looks like mine did on the wingies I had...... and I was hitting 850c with them on sustained full bore runs.... peaked at I think 650 with the SDi hybrids under the same load.....

the scary thing is that fuel is limited in 1st and 2nd due to the torque limiter.... in 3rd and upwards it must be mentally bad lol

Does sound nice tho

As had been said before, I'm convinced from what I've heard about wingies that they are just 200tdi nozzles with the part numbers ground off.
They are the only obvious upgrade from a catalogue browsing point of view in terms of spray angle, orifice size, two stage etc.
Orifice size of the 200tdi is 0.24mm whereas the SDIs are 0.22mm so not a huge difference although the effect this has on area is obviously very significant.

I spent all day yesterday mapping the 200tdis in. The video I posted was just for a laugh, it hasn't stayed like that!

MAPPING ADVICE FOR 200 TDI NOZZLES

First of all, don't bother on a standard turbo, SDIs are more than enough for the job, this only applies for fitting a bigger turbo.

If anybody wants to run 200tdis the best advice I can give is less is more.
I took the "max fuel" map off and replaced it with the original map from my girlfriends 45 (101) with the only differences being the increased rev limit and hard-cut as before. This was the baseline.

Even with the virtually stock map there was smoke under normal acceleration (like in the first clip of the video) although higher up (once on boost) the smoke was much less as to be expected. It felt just as quick top end and EMP dropped (as to be expected).

Back on the driveway and the map edited, I reduced requested fuel in the drivers wish maps by up to -50% for lower throttle position values and gradually increased to standard values for ~50% throttle then added 10% for +70% throttle over 2000 rpm.

I also edited the smoke limit map, by up to -40% below 0.5 bar boost (corrected) gradually increasing to standard values at 0.7 bar then +15% over 1.0 bar.

Out for another test drive... the smoke situation is really good, just like a mapped car on SDIs now but maybe with a bit more on full throttle- this is a haze now rather than James Bond smoke screen- you can get away with full throttle without looking like a complete wally. Performance wise, it feels just as quick full throttle as the "max fuel" map however lower down the pull is much better, maybe due to reduced temps.

Back home for a few more tweaks to make the power delivery more linear and that's where I'm up to.

If anybody says the 200 tdis are too much... I'm sorry but it just isn't suitably mapped.

So, in summary, I'm chuffed the injectors I spent so much money on can be used and further more I have as much fuel to play with as I like when the next stage of turbo inevitably comes.
Also, I've not measured it yet but I bet fuel economy has gone up significantly too given how much fuel I took out of the standard map lower down.
Exciting times

Skillen · 08-05-15, 08:27 AM

Would have been good to see this vs the track car (before stripping).
When I had RZA it left my cousins 170 Leon 550 diesel in the dirt from standstill and from a rolling 30 start which is the opposite to what I expected with his torque (obviously heavier car though.)
With the gains you've made with the car it'll be interesting to see how it is against one.

ZS Phil · 08-05-15, 09:10 AM

Yeh, would make an interesting comparison.
I think from a standing start the 180 would have the diesel, also round a track the 180 would have it simply because of the longer power band.
That said, in-gear acceleration and a twisty b road where the torque will throw you from corner to corner I think the TD could well be the weapon of choice.
They are both fun, having to choose just one would be a tough call.

Skillen · 08-05-15, 09:32 AM

I'd go for the 180 but I just can't see myself in a diesel lol.
I can't see myself in a 4pot of any kind tbh!
But I think it'd be funny to smokescreen a young fool thinking he had the diesel car easily!
You need a button that can change the map so you can do the smokescreen for fun ha!

ZS Phil · 08-05-15, 09:52 AM

The smoke switch idea would actually be pretty easy to do...

There is a "limp mode" map which it goes into if the MAF sensor signal is lost.

All I'd need would be a switch to lose the MAF signal and to change the "MAF-less map" to request loads of fuel, job done

... You've got me thinking now, a dual map might actually be a good idea.

Skillen · 08-05-15, 10:32 AM

In the lower dash.
Where the ashtray is.
Press the ashtray, it flips down revealing toggle switches. Labeled "SMOKE" & "BOOST" (both do the same thing but no one needs to know as one switch is boring.)

p_b82 · 08-05-15, 01:31 PM

Great news that Phil - now to get it on a dyno....

Maybe I will jump to the 200TDI's fairly quickly - I've a low SDI map on mine atm to save the HG on the stage 2.... so will be hugely underfuelled for the GTB1856v.

Smoke levels of just a hazing/SDI equivalent is what we need to really achieve with the VNT as uou know, otherwise it is de clagging of the vanes!

I think when they bring in actual emissions tests - if our derv's get sucked into that, we will need a dual map for sure...

RE the 180 vs tuned diesel.... a stripped track slag would have the advantage regardless, but It would be interesting if they were both the same spec and to compare.

The engine weight is the same, so it would come down to how well you can get the power/torque down and acceleration from corners - if the driver was the same, and the conditions....

ZS Phil · 08-05-15, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skillen

In the lower dash.
Where the ashtray is.
Press the ashtray, it flips down revealing toggle switches. Labeled "SMOKE" & "BOOST" (both do the same thing but no one needs to know as one switch is boring.)

Haha I like it!
Slightly off topic but do you think you'll end up coming over for that carpet at some point? Really don't want to throw it away but I need the space in the garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by p_b82

Great news that Phil - now to get it on a dyno....

Maybe I will jump to the 200TDI's fairly quickly - I've a low SDI map on mine atm to save the HG on the stage 2.... so will be hugely underfuelled for the GTB1856v.

Smoke levels of just a hazing/SDI equivalent is what we need to really achieve with the VNT as uou know, otherwise it is de clagging of the vanes!

I think when they bring in actual emissions tests - if our derv's get sucked into that, we will need a dual map for sure...

RE the 180 vs tuned diesel.... a stripped track slag would have the advantage regardless, but It would be interesting if they were both the same spec and to compare.

The engine weight is the same, so it would come down to how well you can get the power/torque down and acceleration from corners - if the driver was the same, and the conditions....

I'm just amazed at how much fuel I've taken out of even the standard map lower down and how hard it pulls still.

You are right though, it needs to go on the rolling road!

Really starting to get back into the diesel tuning... just sent a message to the local turbo place asking about scope for a 2060 hybrid using a 330d cold side and billet compressor... This is meant to be the "sensible" car!!

ZS Phil · 17-07-15, 10:14 PM

I decided to take the TD for a bit of a drive recently.

A few stats:

27 days
7546 miles
164 hours behind the wheel
17 countries
76 towns
8 capitals
14 mountain passes
8 car ferries
3 time zones
2 crossings of the arctic circle
2 breakdowns
1 tired old MG

I wont list all the countries or anything (unless anybody wants me to) but as always, I'll just try and tell a quick story with a few words and pictures.

Before we set off...

I only decided to take the ZS over the 45 at the last minute. The 45 would probably have been the "sensible" choice (still running 160 bhp spec) but I wanted some pics of the ZS on some of "the worlds best driving roads"... sad but true.

Preparations 2 days before we set off were to raise the suspension 20mm up front and 12mm at the rear (was a bit nose down before), replace the 2 front Conti Sport Contact 3's for some new ones, replace a leaking oil pressure switch, replace the aux belt and tensioner and give it a good service.

Set off after work and drove down to Dover that night

The ZS blends in surprisingly well considering the decals on the roof... waiting for the ferry.

Now then, we saw so many places that it was impossible to take a pic of the car everywhere but some of the scenic places it was rude no to so below are a few of my faves from the trip in the order they were taken.

This one was taken at 11pm in Norway- 24 hours of daylight.

See those toy boats at the bottom of the bath tub??

Well this is what they look like!

The "Arctic Road" Norway.

Naturally saw lots of reindeer as we were approaching Lapland

I wonder how many ZS's have been in the arctic circle?

I didn't get any more car pics until Austria when this happened about 5,000 miles into our trip.

Coolant pipe had worn through. Noticed the temp gauge as it was about 3/4 to max so pulled over straight away and coolant was still dripping so caught it just in time.

Repaired at the side of the motorway by shortening the pipe and re-organising some other pipes.

I did have 2l of spare coolant but that wasn't enough so the rest was substituted for ice tea!

This happened just before we started the big passes. Didn't stop us though.

Grossglockner:

She was getting a bit warm so whipped the plate off.

Mid holiday bath.

Next pass= Hantennjoch

Then onto the famous one... the mighty Stelvio and all 48 of it's hairpins.

ZS Phil · 17-07-15, 10:22 PM

Dont fall off!

So we just finished the last of our big passes and pop goes the clutch master cylinder in Switzerland.

No parts available at all (not even in left hand drive) so had to source my own. Made sense to upgrade the complete system so got Dark ice to send me the diesel "Sheddist" kit over next day.
Really can't fault their service, they really helped me out.

In the mean time, the Skoda of death!

Got the MG back on the Friday at lunch time and our boat home set sail from Dunkirk on the Saturday morning at 8 am.

The mechanic was really nice and the garage was an old MG Rover dealer so he knew what he was doing however he accidentally knocked my mechanical boost controller and cracked the plastic. This meant driving from Switzerland to Blackpool with only 10 psi boost when the map is for 29psi boost... it was smokey.

Always one to make the most of a bad situation, I've just finished fitting a Greddy Profec electronic boost controller but that's a story for another day