Janspeed manifolds - Worth the money?

[talkingcars]

Even an enclosed cone sucking heated air in the engine bay will lose you power.

[Fred68]

Originally Posted by easytime

Years ago I stuck a K&N cone right onto the TB with Duck tape, took her out and was blown away with the noise, it was sweet. What caused me to subsequently rip the cone off was the total loss, yes loss of power. I was amazed after that to see people blowing hard about open cones in 180's, you really need to be brain dead not to notice the missing 40BHP with a cone. In-fact you deserve a cone if you like a cone.

Absolutely. If the standard filter housing could be insulated from the heat of the rad. It would work much better than standard. The 180's standard filter is nice and large, so should flow well enough. Provided there is plenty of cool air available, power should improve.
Did you know that most pleated paper filters will flow around 4 cubic feet per minute, per square inch of area. An engine requires 2.2 cfpm of air per Bhp. So a 200 Bhp engine requires a filter that can provide 440 cfpm of cool filtered air.
If you work out the area of the standard paper filter in the ZS180, then multiply by 4, you will see that it will flow enough for the engine. Obviously this is when the filter is new. Once it's beginning to clog with debris, it's capacity drops of sharply.
I reckon that K&N cotton filters are hard to beat. They flow as well as new paper and don't clog to fast ether. I've found that foam filters that flow lots of air, don't actually filter that well. Foam that filters well doesn't flow well, this is a bit pointless really.
So a good set up would have a good size filter picking up cool air. Much like the inner wing set up, most in the know favour.

[easytime]

Originally Posted by Fred68

Absolutely. If the standard filter housing could be insulated from the heat of the rad. It would work much better than standard. The 180's standard filter is nice and large, so should flow well enough. Provided there is plenty of cool air available, power should improve.
Did you know that most pleated paper filters will flow around 4 cubic feet per minute, per square inch of area. An engine requires 2.2 cfpm of air per Bhp. So a 200 Bhp engine requires a filter that can provide 440 cfpm of cool filtered air.
If you work out the area of the standard paper filter in the ZS180, then multiply by 4, you will see that it will flow enough for the engine. Obviously this is when the filter is new. Once it's beginning to clog with debris, it's capacity drops of sharply.
I reckon that K&N cotton filters are hard to beat. They flow as well as new paper and don't clog to fast ether. I've found that foam filters that flow lots of air, don't actually filter that well. Foam that filters well doesn't flow well, this is a bit pointless really.
So a good set up would have a good size filter picking up cool air. Much like the inner wing set up, most in the know favour.

Standard setup flows well? Have you seen the diameter of the air inlet on the bottom of the filter box? It is about 1 inch or 30-35mm feeding a 100mm throttle body. Yes the filter could flow that much air IF it could be fed that much air which it can't, done on purpose by MGR to slow down the ZS in speed and BHP to boost the ZT190 figures. Ever wonder why the zt was 190 and the ZS was 180? All key engine parts have the same numbers except the induction and exhaust manifolds.
If you could get the 35mm inlet enlarged you would feel a big difference, Maxogen is worth a good 12bhp just by getting the right amount of air to the engine at ambient air temps.

[Fred68]

Originally Posted by easytime

Standard setup flows well? Have you seen the diameter of the air inlet on the bottom of the filter box? It is about 1 inch or 30-35mm feeding a 100mm throttle body. Yes the filter could flow that much air IF it could be fed that much air which it can't, done on purpose by MGR to slow down the ZS in speed and BHP to boost the ZT190 figures. Ever wonder why the zt was 190 and the ZS was 180? All key engine parts have the same numbers except the induction and exhaust manifolds.
If you could get the 35mm inlet enlarged you would feel a big difference, Maxogen is worth a good 12bhp just by getting the right amount of air to the engine at ambient air temps.

I'd forgotten about the bottom entry, it's a long time since I've seen a standard 180 filter box. That D shaped hole has a larger area than the butterfly. Did you know throttle butterfly is only 55mm across?

The 190 engine has many differences to the 180. The inlet cam is different. It has a couple of degrees extra open time and it's been advanced 4 degrees too iirc.
The ECU mapping is slightly different too. Air filter is different as is the exhaust system. Otherwise the engines are the same.

[talkingcars]

Originally Posted by easytime

done on purpose by MGR to slow down the ZS in speed and BHP to boost the ZT190 figures. Ever wonder why the zt was 190 and the ZS was 180? All key engine parts have the same numbers except the induction and exhaust manifolds.

Not quite, the KV6 induction was originally designed for the 2.0 auto in the Rover 45 to run against the small Jags.

The ZT auto KV6 is also 180bhp and there are differences in valve timing between the 2 models.

[easytime]

Originally Posted by Fred68

I'd forgotten about the bottom entry, it's a long time since I've seen a standard 180 filter box. That D shaped hole has a larger area than the butterfly. Did you know throttle butterfly is only 55mm across?

The 190 engine has many differences to the 180. The inlet cam is different. It has a couple of degrees extra open time and it's been advanced 4 degrees too iirc.
The ECU mapping is slightly different too. Air filter is different as is the exhaust system. Otherwise the engines are the same.

The D shape hole is the same size as a 50p, thats much smaller than the butterfly.

[dave23572]

This thread that I started has been very interesting, lots of good posts, thanks guys.

I'm certainly now very tempted to go for a Janspeed manifold and sports cat, to go with my (already fitted) ITG Maxogen.

I was a little surprised with some of the power gain figures banded about though, but actually I hope they are true. 12BHP for the ITG seems on the high side as I didn't notice a huge difference, but then again, I'm not a dyno.

So if these figures are to be believed, a ZS180 (starting at 175BHP) with an ITG Maxogen, JS manifolds and sports cat, should be pushing out 190 to around 200BHP?

One thing I have noticed, even with the ITG maxogen cold air feed, the KV6 is still very sensitive to air temperature. Producing a lot more power in cold air than on a hot day.


Slightly off topic
While I'm very tempted to go for the power mods (above), before I do those, I'd really like to improve the ZS steering to make it a lot more responsive/aggressive. I've done a lot of research on this and it seems to be an area hard to improve.

I've driven another member's 180 back-back with mine (someone that was very happy with his steering/handling) to see if there was any difference, it was exactly the same. So there's nothing wrong with my car, I guess my driving style / handling taste is different to most. I like a very responsive front end with a very quick "turn in", needing relatively less steering wheel input for any given corner.

I tested a 2010 CTR(FN2) and the steering was just what I'm looking for, but while I have flirted with the idea of just getting a CTR(FN2), I'd rather stick with the ZS and do some mods. It will actually be a cheaper overall route to a better car.

It sounds like the steering issue is related to the overall steering wheel to turning wheels ratio. I've looked into a quicker steering rack but there aren't any (that I've found anyway, Quaife certainly don't do any).

I also learned that lock-lock turns of the steering wheel isn't a good comparison between cars (such as the ZS180 and CTR), because the maximum steering lock may be different as well as other factors. I suspect the ZS has a relatively limited max steering lock, perhaps because of arch clearances or to protect the CV joints. The ZS180 has 2.5 turns lock-lock, a CTR(FN2) is 2.3. That's not enough difference to explain how much sharper the CTR steering is over the ZS. I suspect the CTR has a faster overall ratio because it may have a better max lock angle, and possibly other factors in the suspension geometry giving it this property. It may also be a shorter wheelbase. It definitely has lower profile tyres, could it be that?

It's such a shame (for me at least) that this seems to be an area that can't be improved in the ZS. It seems most owners are quite happy with their steering response and rate it highly, but different drivers have different tastes/preferences. Maybe it's because I've done a bit of karting in my time.

A quick-rack (if it existed) would be a way to go, but we would need to get the turns lock-lock to probably under 2.

Dave

[talkingcars]

Owners of 45's, 400's and civics look to the 180 for quicker racks.
Owners of 180's fit MGF/TF steering wheels for smaller wheels.

The only "improvement" you might make is increasing camber and toe-in.

You could increase feed back by disconnecting the power steering.

What is a CTR(FN2)?

[Fred68]

The KV6 is very sensitive to intake temps. The colder the better.
The ZS has one of the best steering racks available. All the Civic boy's want them.
At 2.5 turns, that's about as little as you need on a road car. Any less and you will be doing a slalom as you drive straight.
It's a personal thing but for me, the ZS rack is fast enough.

[dave23572]

Yes it seems most ZS owners are happy with their steering.
I was until I drove a CTR(FN2)

The CTR(FN2) is the 2006-2011 Honda Civic Type-R, code named FN2.
I tested it to see what a good more modern FWD car would steer like, and I was very impressed. Unfortunately the car is not as practical as a ZS saloon so not really an option for me, hence why I'm looking at mods for the ZS instead.