theMGZS.co.uk   Navigation

AboutNews Flyers Forum Events Home

Home
Go Back   theMGZS.co.uk :: MG ZS forum > Galleries > Members Cars

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 18-11-09, 08:44 AM   #21
Supercharged_Z
KV6 Supercharged
 
Supercharged_Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Leighton Buzzard
Posts: 3,172
Supercharged_Z is just really niceSupercharged_Z is just really niceSupercharged_Z is just really niceSupercharged_Z is just really niceSupercharged_Z is just really nice
bedfordshire near aylesbury, i think the x mas meet is in bluewater kent iirc
__________________
------------------------------
theMGZS.co.uk Supporter
------------------------------
Supercharged_Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-09, 08:49 AM   #22
peterzs
promoted bloke!
 
peterzs's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: bournemouth
Posts: 16,796
peterzs is a splendid one to beholdpeterzs is a splendid one to beholdpeterzs is a splendid one to beholdpeterzs is a splendid one to beholdpeterzs is a splendid one to beholdpeterzs is a splendid one to beholdpeterzs is a splendid one to beholdpeterzs is a splendid one to beholdpeterzs is a splendid one to behold
Smile

[QUOTE=Supercharged_Z;127688]been doing pod for a few years, diddnt go this year, 13.5 @104 iirc, 2.260ft best 60ft i gained was 2.0 but car is striped out.

4 sec quicker, and 22mph faster, my stripping out was to leave the spare tyre at home.

Would have shed more weight if I had got rid of my spare tyre, saved a couple of stone!!!

__________________
------------------------------
theMGZS.co.uk Admin
------------------------------
__________________
peterzs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-09, 09:11 AM   #23
StragglaSteve
Member
 
StragglaSteve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Epsom, Surrey
Posts: 819
StragglaSteve is on a distinguished road
Ive been in and out of Farnham quite alot to visit my godson...

but ive never seen another ZS!! are you sure you guys live there?

lots of ZR's round that way!
__________________

52 LeMans Green MG ZS 120+ Saloon
StragglaSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-09, 09:12 AM   #24
garymgzs180
Member
 
garymgzs180's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: hampshire
Posts: 57
garymgzs180 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supercharged_Z View Post
bedfordshire near aylesbury, i think the x mas meet is in bluewater kent iirc
the way i saw it was that the oil is what lubricates and cools the gears. once the oil has been sprayed onto the gears it has done its job and needs to be evacuated as quickly as possible as it is now hot. the gears have no clearance between them . they are meshed tightly and so when using the oil return higher up you have an oil bath. the oil cannot escape from between the gears as they mesh and that is what loads it up and causes all the heat. we bench tested the theory. we ran the charger with a drill with the snout off. then applied lots of oil and the drill slowed down alot where the load had increased. so we found that just the oil jet was ample lubrication.

here is a small article about cam timing when using supercharger instead of naturally aspirated. every bit of research i do says the same thing. reducing valve overlap, reduced inlet duration and increased valve lift are the modifications required. im trying to get a new set of cams made but piper insist that their 270 durations cams for naturally aspirated will do the job. but george at rsm has already advised me that they do not work as he has already tried. was it you and your car that george has been helping with
Intake cam:

Because of the negative effects of overlap on a supercharger car's performance, and especially in the case of high exhaust back pressure as is the case with most factory supercharged cars, we find that the optimal cam duration for the intake cam is typically 30-40* of duration less than a normally aspirated camshaft for the same peak power RPM. The decision to reduce the intake cam duration rather than split the duration reduction between the intake and exhaust cams, is that the intake cam will flow air under pressurized conditions (due to the addition of the supercharger and the increase in intake manifold pressure) and so at a reduced intake cam duration the engine will still be able to get it's full share of intake air. At the same time, the high rpm efficiency improvement from the reduction of overlap will also boost power production with a more conservative cam. Finally, if we would like to get more flow from the intake cam, there is still the option of using a higher lift camshaft (with a steeper profile due to the decreased duration) with supporting valve train modifications to make sure valve float doesn't occur at higher rpms.

Intake cam timing:

The cam timing for the intake cam would ideally be retarded which would move the intake cam opening event farther away from the exhaust valve closing event so as to reduce or eliminate overlap, and as a side effect the power stroke duration will increase by retarding the intake cam which can also compensate for the lost power from the duration reduction.

Exhaust cam:

The exhaust cam duration and lift for a supercharged version of the motor should be similar to a nitrous camshaft, in the sense that the exhaust cams on nitrous specific builds have:

1- Very healthy cam duration & very healthy cam lift to allow a severely elevated amount of exhaust gases to be able to efficiently exit the motor when the nitrous is activated and the horsepower (and thus the exhaust gasses) have both doubled in quantity.

2- As little or no overlap if possible, as any overlap would mean that nitrous would be sprayed from the intake side and out the exhaust, which is wasteful of our limited supply of nitrous. Similarly the more overlap we have, the harder the supercharger will have to work because of what we explained earlier about either exhaust reversion into the intake, or the supercharger pressurizing the exhaust.

Exhaust cam timing:

Advancing the exhaust cam both opens and closes the exhaust valves sooner. Opening the exhaust valve sooner slightly reduces the power stroke, but at the same time it reduces overlap and makes better use of our supercharger. Typically an an advanced exhaust cam combined with retarded intake cam will provide the best results on a supercharged car, especially with a restrictive exhaust.
garymgzs180 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-09, 12:11 PM   #25
Supercharged_Z
KV6 Supercharged
 
Supercharged_Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Leighton Buzzard
Posts: 3,172
Supercharged_Z is just really niceSupercharged_Z is just really niceSupercharged_Z is just really niceSupercharged_Z is just really niceSupercharged_Z is just really nice
well i can only say that george ran his car with cams and it lost power. put the car back to std cams and it gained, it also gained no boost from it.

but my car has been helped by george for 4 yr, however its always been budget restricted.

with regards to the oil, i think i mistook yours, mine is very simular just a different exit.

overall you will probably find what i have over time, pistons are too weak for forced induction. simular to the ones on the 160 k series. however long it takes for them to fail is the question, i was very suprised when my car failed it was running perfect for two years, fueling spot on also, ran good power and got abused on the track.
__________________
------------------------------
theMGZS.co.uk Supporter
------------------------------
Supercharged_Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-09, 08:20 AM   #26
garymgzs180
Member
 
garymgzs180's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: hampshire
Posts: 57
garymgzs180 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supercharged_Z View Post
well i can only say that george ran his car with cams and it lost power. put the car back to std cams and it gained, it also gained no boost from it.

but my car has been helped by george for 4 yr, however its always been budget restricted.

with regards to the oil, i think i mistook yours, mine is very simular just a different exit.

overall you will probably find what i have over time, pistons are too weak for forced induction. simular to the ones on the 160 k series. however long it takes for them to fail is the question, i was very suprised when my car failed it was running perfect for two years, fueling spot on also, ran good power and got abused on the track.
i totally agree with the cams. the originals are better unless you get some custom made. i think the pistons need to be changed but as with yours it is budget restricted. i would love some forged lower compression pistons. is that what your running in your car.
garymgzs180 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-11-09, 08:36 AM   #27
Supercharged_Z
KV6 Supercharged
 
Supercharged_Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Leighton Buzzard
Posts: 3,172
Supercharged_Z is just really niceSupercharged_Z is just really niceSupercharged_Z is just really niceSupercharged_Z is just really niceSupercharged_Z is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by garymgzs180 View Post
i totally agree with the cams. the originals are better unless you get some custom made. i think the pistons need to be changed but as with yours it is budget restricted. i would love some forged lower compression pistons. is that what your running in your car.
no, i am just about to order some . there not hugely expensive but putting them in is.

the ringlands are weak and its just the way of getting around that. i rekon that with stronger pistons you could run the piggy back ecu setup and be reliable without the cost of dta etc.
__________________
------------------------------
theMGZS.co.uk Supporter
------------------------------

Last edited by Supercharged_Z; 19-11-09 at 02:30 PM.
Supercharged_Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-09, 06:01 PM   #28
Dave ZS-X
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 539
Dave ZS-X is on a distinguished road
interesting read
nice to see someone trying new things with sc kv6.
it was my kv6 with cams in that george brought, he was hoping it would make big power with an sc strapped to it, as it had already good power but it wasnt that easy. Shame he didnt stick with it because cams can work well with sc applications, you just need some designed for the job.
from what ive been told the basic charger with its little mods (bearings and oil feed etc) will work for some miles if treated with respect but to have reliaibilty and power and use that power in confidence you really need for starters....

uprated fuel pump and swirl pot
proper bigger injectors
proper programmable ecu
uprated pistons
water injection for cooling

i guess that lots going to cost a good few thousands but i hope someone does it and then tries somemore boost.
__________________
Re-united with the power of 300 stampeding stallions
Turbo Powaaaah FTW.


Dave
Dave ZS-X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-09, 06:58 PM   #29
Supercharged_Z
KV6 Supercharged
 
Supercharged_Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Leighton Buzzard
Posts: 3,172
Supercharged_Z is just really niceSupercharged_Z is just really niceSupercharged_Z is just really niceSupercharged_Z is just really niceSupercharged_Z is just really nice
you dont need bigger injectors

the fuel pump and swirl pot is needed for track really. however it wouldnt hurt to have one and to be honest its not a huge expense.


Dave there ecu this chap is running is different to my piggy back unit, he can do more, if fueling is good then he wont have problems as long as afr is ok, but you could compliment it with a stand alone


forge pistons yeah, i agree if your reving at high revs a lot.

water injection isnt really needed depinding on what your doing with the rest of the car.
__________________
------------------------------
theMGZS.co.uk Supporter
------------------------------
Supercharged_Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-09, 08:30 PM   #30
Dave ZS-X
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 539
Dave ZS-X is on a distinguished road
yeah you can make do for some time without some of those things but making do is what keeps resulting in failures. If your doing it do it right or it will bite you in the ass eventually.
__________________
Re-united with the power of 300 stampeding stallions
Turbo Powaaaah FTW.


Dave
Dave ZS-X is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ? 2010 theMGZS.co.uk