ZS TD project

[ZS Phil]

Update time...

It's been a while but things have been changing in the background.

Having been running the custom injectors with the VNT for a good few months and a few thousand miles of daily driving the VNT mech had finally begun to slow down (hardly surprising with the amount of soot the injectors throw out).

It needs to be a reliable daily so with that in mind I decided to de-tune slightly by putting the standard turbo back on along with SDIs.

That lasted for 2 weeks...

Having gotten used to the power and torque of the VNT, the standard turbo wasn't cutting the mustard higher up the rev range so it had to go. The way I saw things were I could either re-fit the VNT and run it with SDIs so as not to clog it up every few thousand miles OR I could try something completely different, not yet tried on an L series as far as I know.

So, this is the end of the VNT chapter for now. It is all cleaned out and waiting on a shelf in the garage for some more action in the future maybe.

So, as always, lots of pictures and info so if anybody else wants a bigger turbo on their car too there are literally no excuses not to do it!

First of all, here is 1x VNT turbo kit with super clean silky smooth vanes safely in storage should it ever be called up for duty again in the future:






Out with the old and in with the new. The postman came with some presents:




But what's inside?



As you can see, lots of turbo goodness including a blown GT2056s as used on Renault Trafic vans and Vivaro vans with the 2.5 dci engine between 2003 and 2006.

Part no. 714652

Other useful info:
Compressor inducer: 41.5mm
Compressor exducer: 56mm
A/R: 0.53
Trim: 55





According to the seller there was just an oil seal gone but rather than rely on used parts I decided to replace the whole CHRA (cartridge) for a brand new uprated one from NKK turbos. This has staggered seals, uprated bearings and is completely balanced with print out.

Other than that, there are just loads of gaskets, some stainless exhaust sections and some steel plate for me to get creative with.

Some pics of the turbo, ties in with the blown oil seal story, oil everywhere!





After a thorough clean/ de-grease:




A flange for the turbo end of the downpipe:










Recycling some old exhaust, I made a little partition to isolate the wastegate from the turbine outlet. I also made the flange look a bit prettier.













Continuing the theme of recycling, I needed a flange for the other end of the new downpipe:







Before I could lock the wastegate shut properly, I needed to clock the turbo which is where the VNT came in very useful. Both turbos have the same manifold flange (so I didn't have to make another adapter plate) and also the compressor housings look to be exactly the same casting surprisingly. They have the retaining bolts in slightly different places and they are obviously machined to take the 52mm and 56mm compressor wheels accordingly.

One thing that did cross my mind was how easy it would be to make a VNT GT1856V using the compressor side from the GT2056s. Maybe something for the future?

Anyway, back to this... a clocked turbo and a few pics comparing the 1852V and the 2056S:








So now I could start my next piece of metal work... a means of keeping the internal wastegate shut:
















All bolted together:







And naturally it got the oil and filter dropped and new stuff put in.




It is now all fitted and ready to go, I just need to get the downpipe parts welded together and a screamer pipe for the wastegate made. If its too loud I'll just plumb it back into the exhaust as with the set up with the VNT.

So I've got what could potentially be the next best thing in L series tuning or the next lemon. Really wish I could say which of the two it is but no downpipe means no drive yet.

Needless to say I'm excited to see how it is... watch this space.

[Lukeus101]

Wow, what an update mate! Some bloody hard work gone into it and will look forward to seeing how it performs

[talkingcars]

Impressive work, is it kitchen table tuning or do you have access to a workshop?

[ZS Phil]

Originally Posted by Lukeus101

Wow, what an update mate! Some bloody hard work gone into it and will look forward to seeing how it performs

Cheers mate, cant wait to drive it. So annoying having it sat there ready to go with just an exhaust section missing.

Originally Posted by talkingcars

Impressive work, is it kitchen table tuning or do you have access to a workshop?

I suppose its a bit of both. I don't have access to a proper workshop, I just use my garage (as in single car garage at the side of the house, not a car repair garage) which is semi kitted out as a workshop. I've got a pillar drill, grinding wheel, metal work vice etc all bolted to a bench along with a good stash of hand tools so I can do most things by hand as one offs. Obviously those flanges took all day to make with just those tools so I wont be setting up a production line any time soon!

[peterzs]

Well done, love all the attention to detail.

Awesome car and looks so O/E, cant wait to see it again.

[p_b82]

Nice one Phil - it is a shame to see that the 200TDI's clogged the VNT mech so fast though....

I think it is going to be interesting if we can find a sweet spot , but it seems that mapping will probably have to be done on a dyno, and a 'loooong' session too to get it right.

I really hope the lag is not too bad for you, as I think you will miss the low down response the VNT gave you - as going back to an OE unit, I understand they are fairly similar in terms of response characteristics.

I know the stage 2 is around 2000 before anything meaningful happens, and 2225 before full boost can be achieved.

I have to admit it is my biggest fear with the GTB purchase, the soot levels..... first stage is cleaning running on SDI hybrids though to get it bedded in and work on the controller tweaking!

[ZS Phil]

Originally Posted by peterzs

Well done, love all the attention to detail.

Awesome car and looks so O/E, cant wait to see it again.

Thanks Peter

Hopefully it will all pay off. No doubt I will show my face at a few more events, had such a good time at the saloon day.

Originally Posted by p_b82

Nice one Phil - it is a shame to see that the 200TDI's clogged the VNT mech so fast though....

I think it is going to be interesting if we can find a sweet spot , but it seems that mapping will probably have to be done on a dyno, and a 'loooong' session too to get it right.

I really hope the lag is not too bad for you, as I think you will miss the low down response the VNT gave you - as going back to an OE unit, I understand they are fairly similar in terms of response characteristics.

I know the stage 2 is around 2000 before anything meaningful happens, and 2225 before full boost can be achieved.

I have to admit it is my biggest fear with the GTB purchase, the soot levels..... first stage is cleaning running on SDI hybrids though to get it bedded in and work on the controller tweaking!

The VNT sooted up with the hybrid injectors and the fuel pump virtually maxed out. Needless to say it was very smokey so not really surprising, it was a question of when not if. We did try reducing smoke with the hybrids by reducing the injection quantity but with the controller settings left as they were it wasn't boosting and obviously not making power. Changing the map and the controller map would have overcome this but there are so many variables and perameters in the VNT controller that it would have taken hours and hours so decided to leave things as they were and came away with some decent power runs and a hard cut limiter for good measure.

With SDIs back in now I'll see how the new turbo burns the fuel and then consider putting the 200's back in but if that happens I'll have to pay Kris a visit to reduce fueling again.

Regarding lag, I hope it isn't too bad too but from what I've seen on youtube and what I've read I believe I should be able to get 24-25psi by 2.5k rpm. If that is the case then it is no worse than my VNT. Time will tell I suppose because I'm not taking the 306 forum as gospel, just keeping an open mind until I know the facts.

Your GTB has a different vane design to my VNT so hopefully that should help with clogging. Also, you see the amount of smoke that comes out the back of tuned VAGs with the GTBs and they don't seem to have many problems. I'm sure you'll be fine.

I've said to Kris that when his controller is sorted I'll have one, VNT isn't off the cards for me completely, I just need a reliable daily driver for the next year hence keeping it old school and simple for now.

[p_b82]

Well I suppose that actually knowing what you had pushed through it, it was soot that was your issue not EMP or EGT is a promising sign for 200+ ponies and reliability... that was something that was still an unknown for most of us!

Part the reason that I wanted Kris's controller was so that the map and the vnt control can work in tandem, as it is not always about generating boost, but more about getting decent flow.... if you dont *need* 20+PSI to get a wave or torque then dont have it there ready and waiting.....

obviously WOT throttle requests change all that, but I haven't used WOT for so long I have got used to driving with the torque and can keep up quite happily with most things at road speeds.

I've not spent much time on the 306 one tbh, but spent a fair amount of research on the VAG one clubtdi i think it is, and that was why I went for the (pricey) GTB in the end.

I am sure we are not going to get the same level of power that they get out, as we have a lower rev limit from the factory (4200) even if mine will go up to 5400. but the exhaust manifold will be interesting to see if it makes any difference. we know from past experience from Donny, that the inlet one is *good* so this really is going to be my last power mods...

for me low smoke is important, James Bond smoke screens out the back is not what I am after, been there done that and it is fun, but dangerous ultimately...

i'd like to have a dual map option, one for track/pod use and one for everyday, but I might get round that with my right foot again lol.

Either way, fingers crossed that the new turbo does the job!

I still fear it will be the low down reponse that might prove a bit of a killer, as we we know they can bog down a bit with poor maf on the little GT15's.....

[ZS Phil]

Originally Posted by p_b82

Well I suppose that actually knowing what you had pushed through it, it was soot that was your issue not EMP or EGT is a promising sign for 200+ ponies and reliability... that was something that was still an unknown for most of us!

Part the reason that I wanted Kris's controller was so that the map and the vnt control can work in tandem, as it is not always about generating boost, but more about getting decent flow.... if you dont *need* 20+PSI to get a wave or torque then dont have it there ready and waiting.....

obviously WOT throttle requests change all that, but I haven't used WOT for so long I have got used to driving with the torque and can keep up quite happily with most things at road speeds.

I've not spent much time on the 306 one tbh, but spent a fair amount of research on the VAG one clubtdi i think it is, and that was why I went for the (pricey) GTB in the end.

I am sure we are not going to get the same level of power that they get out, as we have a lower rev limit from the factory (4200) even if mine will go up to 5400. but the exhaust manifold will be interesting to see if it makes any difference. we know from past experience from Donny, that the inlet one is *good* so this really is going to be my last power mods...

for me low smoke is important, James Bond smoke screens out the back is not what I am after, been there done that and it is fun, but dangerous ultimately...

i'd like to have a dual map option, one for track/pod use and one for everyday, but I might get round that with my right foot again lol.

Either way, fingers crossed that the new turbo does the job!

I still fear it will be the low down reponse that might prove a bit of a killer, as we we know they can bog down a bit with poor maf on the little GT15's.....

Your plans all sound good and I'm glad somebody else is sticking their neck out with a new turbo choice. Look forward to seeing the results... make sure you take lots of pics and keep us updated.
Hows the controller coming on by the way? We any closer to seeing the manifold?

[ZS Phil]

Pretty self explanatory really, just to show the downpipe and screamer pipe. One of them shows how the wastegate is plumbed in with the controller too if anybody was wondering.

A couple of poor quality vids of the screamer pipe. Still a bit undecided but I've got a baffle insert on the way to see if that makes it a bit quieter.

Windows up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBfhcrrUnGQ

Windows down through a short tunnel at the start: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IugHKBeQLw